Vapour membrane > T.Frame walls.

[zoothorn]

On 07/04/2020 at 18:46, ProDave said:

And lots of pressure on the screw so it does not cam out and chew up the head.

 

Ok just about got the sods out. @Onoff if I could get your thoughts especially..

 

Ok now I find whats under the osb top. Nearest door frame: roof batten nailed I think into the block below, with a lip of dpm around it & going down into cavity.

 

The cavity doesn't go down down all the way here as I anticipated to find: instead a dpm sheet seems(?) to come up from 1 block below door frame, up & diagonally across 'bridging' the cavity > stapled onto CLS. So I sort of have a dpm gap shaped in a sort of 'V' going down 6" or so.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Can anyone help? better pics here. Seems there's just the one dpm in the foreground attatched to the CLS: it goes down, 1 block deep & originates from between blocks (as far as I can tell).

 

I do not want to remove pink battens, as they're nailed into block top, & even if I could remove/ redo (with PIR between like Onoff's suggestion) I could never attatch back solidly so would never be a good base for the osb top.

 

 

 

 

[andyscotland]

That looks correct for the DPM/DPC it should span the cavity and slope to lead moisture/water out of the house. I've lost track of what you're trying to achieve here? If it's just to insulate then cut some PIR offcuts if you have them to fill up as much of the space as you can, then fill the rest with expanding foam, then trim level and fix the OSB back down?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, andyscotland said:

That looks correct for the DPM/DPC it should span the cavity and slope to lead moisture/water out of the house. I've lost track of what you're trying to achieve here? If it's just to insulate then cut some PIR offcuts if you have them to fill up as much of the space as you can, then fill the rest with expanding foam, then trim level and fix the OSB back down?

 

Yes its just simply how to introduce insulation/ as per your suggestion is what I was considering Andy.. I just wasn't sure filling this space up wasn't creating a moisture bridge / cavity thing I guess, so I was reticent to go ahead.

 

But won't I still have 'cold weak ingress areas' where the pink battens are tho? this is my main concern: but I can't see a way around it, as I can't remove & refit bits of these pink battens back like Onoff's suggestion (putting PIR there instead adjacent to door frame), as they're nailed with some dpm sandwiched under: only way I could refix is with rawlplugs into the top of the block below.. & I haven't enough top (1") to do this.

[zoothorn]

On 21/04/2020 at 19:59, andyscotland said:

That looks correct for the DPM/DPC it should span the cavity and slope to lead moisture/water out of the house. I've lost track of what you're trying to achieve here? If it's just to insulate then cut some PIR offcuts if you have them to fill up as much of the space as you can, then fill the rest with expanding foam, then trim level and fix the OSB back down?

 

Hi andy.. done as you suggested/ filled up the 'V' shaped space, foil sealed the top > osb back on/ foil sealed this too, as I reckon the whole step area's fiddly corners & gap will have at the least air ingress weakspots if not some cold too. Done as best I could.

 

Is it usual to now put something like a window 'sill' affair ontop the osb to make a proper threshold? as it is its a very shallow (height) step relative to the door frame to step over onto the balcony, plus,  its 230mm depth is small too. I'm thinking a rounded edged step sill, well screwed onto osb & protruding say 50mm into the room to give the added height + added depth in one go. Then carpet can go neatly under the lip flush with room edge. Does that sound daft?

[andyscotland]

Sorry didn't see your previous. Don't worry too much about the battens there will always be some timber/etc bridging the insulation in your kind of build the thing is to minimise the heat loss elsewhere to keep the overall/average down.

 

Your sill/step plan sounds good. Don't know about "usual" but sounds sensible to me. The worst trip hazards are small / non-obvious steps so by having a very visible change in material and a bigger step up it will be safer and probably a neater finish at the edge of the carpet.

 

 

[zoothorn]

On 24/04/2020 at 09:36, andyscotland said:

Sorry didn't see your previous. Don't worry too much about the battens there will always be some timber/etc bridging the insulation in your kind of build the thing is to minimise the heat loss elsewhere to keep the overall/average down.

 

Your sill/step plan sounds good. Don't know about "usual" but sounds sensible to me. The worst trip hazards are small / non-obvious steps so by having a very visible change in material and a bigger step up it will be safer and probably a neater finish at the edge of the carpet.

 

 

 

@andyscotland can I ask you please: I have an area of ceiling left, after I plasterboard it with full width 1200mm boards as much as I can, a gap left of 320mm. So the room width 3800mm x 320mm. So I need two bits: one full length board cut thin to 320mm, plus 1400mm x 320mm bit.

 

Is the long thin 2400mm x 320mm section a viable size? or is it a recipe for disaster/ you never use such a long thin bit.. IE cut it up or something?

 

(I know its tagged on to this thread.. but I have no option). Thanks

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

@andyscotland can I ask you please: I have an area of ceiling left, after I plasterboard it with full width 1200mm boards as much as I can, a gap left of 320mm. So the room width 3800mm x 320mm. So I need two bits: one full length board cut thin to 320mm, plus 1400mm x 320mm bit.

 

Is the long thin 2400mm x 320mm section a viable size? or is it a recipe for disaster/ you never use such a long thin bit.. IE cut it up or something?

 

(I know its tagged on to this thread.. but I have no option). Thanks

 

That size is no issue at all but better with two of you putting it up.

 

In answer to your earlier questions. Plasterboards are shown blue & green, joist bottoms in black. Without noggins, shown red, there is no support under where the edges butt up to each other. 

 

[Onoff]

Dark blue is your 320mm wide bit. What will dictate whether you start with a full board (light blue) on the left is what the end of the board sits on. You MUST ideally have the right hand end of that board on the centre of a joist. Again, imo you want a line of noggins between the light and dark blue:

 

[zoothorn]

@Onoff hallelujah! I now understand what you were on about. Mostly. Thanks for your patience to explain this.

 

I had no idea that I needed any noggins perpendicular to the joists. I had -only- the notion of "extending" a joists' width, so if my board end fell short, my board end can fall on the new timber inserted (this -is- what is suggested on the other sketch.. the broken line additional timbers are parralel with the joists, not perp.. if I can recall: the thread, & all info I need within it, having been deleted).

 

Ok so let me get this right (with this new [to me] above info confusion has now shifted, not gone away).

 

Are you suggesting I need a whole series of (in your diagram above with the single red noggin) 18x noggins put in, between the light blue & green 'long sides' of the boards ----and----- the very long join between the dark blue 320mm board & adjacent long side of boards?

 

Or.. is your suggestion I ----only---- need noggins at the meeting of the dark blue & other boards? (& your red noggin is just an eg of what a noggin is.. rather than an actual placement-suggestion in my ceiling?).

[Onoff]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Are you suggesting I need a whole series of (in your diagram above with the single red noggin) 18x noggins put in, between the light blue & green 'long sides' of the boards ----and----- the very long join between the dark blue 320mm board & adjacent long side of boards?

 

I would yes.

 

Btw, I tried that "Google" search engine thing someone recommended. Effing brilliant tool.

 

I typed in "noggins plasterboard ceiling"...

 

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/how-to-fit-a-plasterboard-ceiling/

 

 

[zoothorn]

12 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I would yes.

 

Btw, I tried that "Google" search engine thing someone recommended. Effing brilliant tool.

 

I typed in "noggins plasterboard ceiling"...

 

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/how-to-fit-a-plasterboard-ceiling/

 

 

 

Ok now I understand. Thanks. Its added a ton of work I'd no idea of then! I still can't quite get it tho (apart from it being belt/ braces which I can see the logic of) if my joists are only 300mm between, & 100mm W. Now looking at my builders' ceiling pB job upstairs.. there are 300mm gaps all over the shop between fixings (many 500mm). Its shoddily done, & you'd have a fit, but not alarmingly-so, to me.

 

But can you not see that altho your sketches always appreciated.. it has (broken-line) noggins in opposite/ perp to the red eg above-?

 

Onoff there's no googling to have solved this mystery! it would only increaced my confusion if I'd read a noggin is inherrantly perp to a joist (as I 1st thought > then sketch suggested otherwise > & now I'm back concluding a noggin likely is & only ever is perp to a joist).

 

Hence I naturally ask the q's I did. And you blow a gasket! I still may be wrong re. your sketch.. but I'm 99.9% sure those broken-line additionals were/ are facing twds the viewer, not to the sides like red-nog above is. Hey-ho. many thx tho- zoot.

 

 

[zoothorn]

So I think I concluded I'm going skim both ceilings, & TE boards for the walls.. but threads been deleted so I don't know.

 

Ok so I need jointing compound, & the tape that goes on 1st.

 

Can anyone recommend a compound, & what ammount for two 3.8 x 4m rooms? (only walls). I don't want 3/4 of excess if I can avoid it.

 

thanks.

[PeterW]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

So I think I concluded I'm going skim both ceilings, & TE boards for the walls.. but threads been deleted so I don't know.

 

Ok so I need jointing compound, & the tape that goes on 1st.

 

Can anyone recommend a compound, & what ammount for two 3.8 x 4m rooms? (only walls). I don't want 3/4 of excess if I can avoid it.

 

thanks.

 

If you are skimming you do not need jointing or tape - the skim goes over it all

[zoothorn]

Just now, PeterW said:

 

If you are skimming you do not need jointing or tape - the skim goes over it all

 

Tbh Peter I can't now see where I got to (threads been deleted) in conclusion, SE or TE boards for walls.

 

I've seen an alarming quote one regular member got for 2x rooms plastering (£1.8k).. so I have to go without skimming walls, surely.

 

If I go just skim only 2x ceilings.. I need compound & tape for the walls.

[PeterW]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

I've seen an alarming quote one regular member got for 2x rooms plastering (£1.8k).. so I have to go without skimming walls, surely.

 

 

That is not representative

 

who is skimming upstairs..? Ask them for a quote to do downstairs too

[zoothorn]

Just now, PeterW said:

 

That is not representative

 

who is skimming upstairs..? Ask them for a quote to do downstairs too

 

No I can appreciate that.

 

I haven't yet even approached or know of, a plasterer to ask. This is why I was asking the tricky Q of: 'can anyone give an approx cost of what I might be looking twds for skimming both rooms vs only both ceilings'.. not an easy one to answer I appreciate.

[Onoff]

 

28 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I still can't quite get it tho (apart from it being belt/ braces which I can see the logic of)

 

I have half an idea they, noggins, giving full support, might be required for added fire resistance.

[Onoff]

Let's be honest any local plasterer is likely a mate of your builder.

[zoothorn]

Just now, Onoff said:

 

 

I have half an idea they, noggins, giving full support, might be required for added fire resistance.

 

Ok that's perfectly reasonable- so I can ask this to my BCO. He was in a good mood y'day. Damn I hope I don't have to do: its 24x or so with 4 rows of boards inc my dark blue strip.

[Onoff]

Just now, zoothorn said:

 

Ok that's perfectly reasonable- so I can ask this to my BCO. He was in a good mood y'day. Damn I hope I don't have to do: its 24x or so with 4 rows of boards inc my dark blue strip.

 

So you don't like the idea of doing something because it's extra work even when good reasons are given. You're now going to go and ask someone else (the BCO) hoping to get the answer you want? Just ask them in future.

 

Gasket blown.

 

 

[zoothorn]

Just now, Onoff said:

 

Clearly you don't or you wouldn't have more questions.

 

 

No. I don't fully then! (I understood how the mis-com happened, is what I meant right there: tho until I'm proved right that your sketch -did- have the nogs at r-angles to Mr. Red above.. I guess I don't understand this either! & you'll leave me hanging on it too.. I know that much!).

 

Doesn't matter now/ water under bridge/ I move on.

[Onoff]

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

So you don't like the idea of doing something because it's extra work even when good reasons are given. You're now going to go and ask someone else (the BCO) hoping to get the answer you want? Just ask them in future.

 

Gasket blown.

 

 

 

I don't like the prospect of adding nogs to -these- 20mm thin pozi-joists tho, & having no idea it was neccessary after a week prepping the ceiling pB job, until its explained only 1 hr ago.. no not too thrilled at doing it! But if its required.. I have to, & telling me about it will be beneficial of course.

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I just don't understand this Onoff.

 

I am only trying to figure out the noggin idea you are suggesting, which I appreciate (I'm not saying I'm not doing it.. just asking why the need, that's all, so I can understand).

 

You must see that the sketch is opposite to the diagram-?? this is mostly why I was so confused. All I know now [[suddenly/ having understood your diagram only 1 hr ago because the sketch has the nogs other way, & has side-flanked me up to 1 hr ago]] is that these noggins have to be done. That's ok!

 

Why so irate?!