Quote for electricity to site

[Mike_scotland]

I have asked for a quote from the electricity board to bring electricity to our plot they have said....

 

Good Afternoon Mike

 

When you are ready for your formal quote, we will need the following information to ensure it is competent to provide an accurate quote;

 

1. Motor Rating
2. Single or three phase
3. Starting Method (DOL, Star Delta)
4. Starting Current (Amperes)
5. Make/Model of heat pump

 

 

Can anyone assist the meaning of items 1, 3  4.???

 

Also who would you speak to regarding this a house spark or industrial spark? 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mike

Edited February 25, 2020 by Mike_scotland

[ProDave]

Choose an inverter driven heat pump.

 

1: is it's electrical input rating, less than 2kW for a 5kW heat pump for instance.

2: single phase unless you want something massive

3: Soft start inverter drive

4: starting current same as running current in 1:

And pick a make and model that you might choose. Of course you might change your mind.

[Mike_scotland]

Are all these questions ASHP related? 

[Jeremy Harris]

19 minutes ago, Mike_scotland said:

Are all these questions ASHP related? 

 

 

Yes, I believe they are.  I had to answer very similar questions from SSE.  They never queried the answers I gave them, and just gave us a standard supply.

[SuperJohnG]

@Mike_scotland

 

Assuming the obvious that you're located in Scotland.  

 

I recently got a quote from SPEN (Scottish power energy networks)...and didnt get these questions. Is that who is asking? 

 

Similarly it is not something I would expect anyone to understand unless they had an engineering background. So I would question what they are asking and if you're  getting the right quote. 

 

As above 1 would be your kW motor rating.  2 would be single  phase. I would assume its DOL (direct on line)at these small sizes. 4 could be 5-10 times bigger than your base kW rating it's called 'inrush current'.

Again I'd reiterate....doesn't seem like questions they should be asking domestic clients imo, so a little strange. 

[Mike_scotland]

Hi guys, 

 

Basically I have applied to SSE for a quote to bring electricity to my plot, she asked what my main heating source would be and I said a ashp or gshp(99.9% were going ashp) and she came back with those questions.

 

Do you think I should go back and query her asking this or? 

[ProDave]

8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

 

 

.....

Similarly it is not something I would expect anyone to understand unless they had an engineering background. So I would question what they are asking and if you're  getting the right quote. 

 

As above 1 would be your kW motor rating.  2 would be single  phase. I would assume its DOL (direct on line)at these small sizes. 4 could be 5-10 times bigger than your base kW rating it's called 'inrush current'.

Again I'd reiterate....doesn't seem like questions they should be asking domestic clients imo, so a little strange. 

You would normally get someone technical involved with applying for an electricity connection.

 

The DNO's are very worried about high starting currents which will cause a dip in voltage ad the unit starts up.  So they ask for this information.

 

imho they are being too worried.  It is only old design heat pumps or some of the cheaper ones that use Direct On Line starting and have these very high inrush currents.  A modern inverter driven heat pump does not.

[Mike_scotland]

16 minutes ago, ProDave said:

You would normally get someone technical involved with applying for an electricity connection.

 

The DNO's are very worried about high starting currents which will cause a dip in voltage ad the unit starts up.  So they ask for this information.

 

imho they are being too worried.  It is only old design heat pumps or some of the cheaper ones that use Direct On Line starting and have these very high inrush currents.  A modern inverter driven heat pump does not.

Hi Prodave,

I will look into it, what technical person do you think?  like a heating engineer/sparky or?

[soapstar]

@Mike_scotland we applied for our connection a couple years back and didnt get asked any of these questions (we also plan for an ASHP), from your location we are only up the road from you too.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just had a look at the form I filled in for SSE back in 2013.  The questions were similar, but this is what they asked then, together with the answers I gave (at the time we were still looking to install a GSHP, that changed when we realised the massive cost implications):

 

Quote

If heating by heat pump please complete the following

Please select type of heat pump:    Air source    Ground source    Exhaust

Electric rating of heat pump:        1.5 kW

How often will the pump start per hour?        6 starts per hour

Starting method:        Direct on line        Star-Delta    Soft start

Starting current:        10 amps

If available please include the manufacturer's data sheet with your application

 

There were tick or fill-in boxes by each of these.  I selected ground source (should now be air source), filled in the 1.5 kW electrical power (use 1/3rd of the output power, it's good enough), filled in the 6 starts per hours (complete guess, and OTT), selected soft start (this is the choice for inverter controlled pumps), filled in 10 amps as an OTT starting current and added a note that the manufacturer's data sheet was not yet available.

 

SSE didn't query this at all, they just gave us a pretty standard 100 A max supply.

[jamiehamy]

Make sure you consider your future needs. In 15years there's a high liklihood we'll well on all be in evs. And possibly on more powerful than 7kW chargers. Make sure you factor that in as well - every house will have its own needs of course but as a whole, supplied should now be based on need 15+ years hence. Even with two eV charge points you may still end up in single phase, but maybe not. 

 

I told SP Energy a few weeks ago we had all electric heating, 12kWh immerse, plus two evs and they agreed 3 phase was required, esp as its very likely they'll all be on during the night concurrently. 

[Mike_scotland]

2 hours ago, soapstar said:

@Mike_scotland we applied for our connection a couple years back and didnt get asked any of these questions (we also plan for an ASHP), from your location we are only up the road from you too.

Yes its a weird one, like i said when i queried it they asked what sort of heating and i said ASHP so they continued to dig deeper into the questions and i have no idea haha, i will have to instruct a heating engineer or something to help me out.


Were are you based? did you get your plot electricity up and running?

Edited February 26, 2020 by Mike_scotland

[Mike_scotland]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

Just had a look at the form I filled in for SSE back in 2013.  The questions were similar, but this is what they asked then, together with the answers I gave (at the time we were still looking to install a GSHP, that changed when we realised the massive cost implications):

 

 

There were tick or fill-in boxes by each of these.  I selected ground source (should now be air source), filled in the 1.5 kW electrical power (use 1/3rd of the output power, it's good enough), filled in the 6 starts per hours (complete guess, and OTT), selected soft start (this is the choice for inverter controlled pumps), filled in 10 amps as an OTT starting current and added a note that the manufacturer's data sheet was not yet available.

 

SSE didn't query this at all, they just gave us a pretty standard 100 A max supply.

Hi Jeremy,
I am assuming you have a very very well insulated house? 1.5kw quite low no?

we were told to tell them a 10-12kw for ashp and 4-6kw solar PV on the roof,  but he said once the heat loss calcs are done we will likely be a 6-8kw for ASHP.

[Mike_scotland]

2 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

Make sure you consider your future needs. In 15years there's a high liklihood we'll well on all be in evs. And possibly on more powerful than 7kW chargers. Make sure you factor that in as well - every house will have its own needs of course but as a whole, supplied should now be based on need 15+ years hence. Even with two eV charge points you may still end up in single phase, but maybe not. 

 

I told SP Energy a few weeks ago we had all electric heating, 12kWh immerse, plus two evs and they agreed 3 phase was required, esp as its very likely they'll all be on during the night concurrently. 

Hi Jamie,



i was tinking we might need 3 phase which im not sure the financial implications of that compared to single, we are thinking of the future like you said, may aswell get everything in place now.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Mike_scotland

[Jeremy Harris]

21 minutes ago, Mike_scotland said:

Hi Jeremy,
I am assuming you have a very very well insulated house? 1.5kw quite low no?

we were told to tell them a 10-12kw for ashp and 4-6kw solar PV on the roof,  but he said once the heat loss calcs are done we will likely be a 6-8kw for ASHP.

 

 

1.5 kW electrical input to a heat pump is roughly 4.5 kW to 5 kW output.  That's enough to heat most homes, and a massive over kill for our house, which only needs around 1.6 kW of heat (so around 0.5 kW of electricity) to heat.  A 10 kW to 12 kW input heat pump (apart from being way bigger than is available for domestic use) is going to deliver somewhere between 30 kW and 40 kW of heat, way more than pretty much any normal house is ever going to need.

[Mike_scotland]

26 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

1.5 kW electrical input to a heat pump is roughly 4.5 kW to 5 kW output.  That's enough to heat most homes, and a massive over kill for our house, which only needs around 1.6 kW of heat (so around 0.5 kW of electricity) to heat.  A 10 kW to 12 kW input heat pump (apart from being way bigger than is available for domestic use) is going to deliver somewhere between 30 kW and 40 kW of heat, way more than pretty much any normal house is ever going to need.

Yeah i understand now Jeremy, so would you agree 6-8kw might be even too big? he just said after heat calcs are done should be 6-8kw HP.

[Jeremy Harris]

6 kW to 8 kW heat output seems about right, and that would draw around 2 kW to 2.8 kW from the grid when running flat out, less than an immersion heater.  Most of the time it won't be running flat out, either, so the true power drawn will be a lot less.

[soapstar]

On 26/02/2020 at 11:14, Mike_scotland said:

Yes its a weird one, like i said when i queried it they asked what sort of heating and i said ASHP so they continued to dig deeper into the questions and i have no idea haha, i will have to instruct a heating engineer or something to help me out.


Were are you based? did you get your plot electricity up and running?

We are based in the Stonehaven area. Yes we have had our electric connection in place for a couple years now, no meter just terminated to a box which will be moved to the house when built...Typically SSE made a mistake with our connection from the transformer! From the main cable which comes from the transformer this converts to a smaller cable terminating at the house, this smaller cable can only be 30 metres max, our house is 40 metres away as they were 10m short! Something to bear in mind perhaps if you are planning a temporary connection at this stage before the house is built.