Battery Storage recommendations

[Thorfun]

25 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Edit: Ignore me lol

wish I knew what you said now!

[Pocster]

20 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

that's the thing isn't it. going to get my sparkie to install the battery system. Solar PV is already installed as per that G99 application. then the M&E consultants got taken over and are no longer doing batteries and so gave me a refund for the PW2 and dumped me to find someone else to do the work. that's what led me down this path! 

 

so I don't have an installer any more.

Ah ! Bum smells !!

[Pocster]

20 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

wish I knew what you said now!

I know what he said . I saw it before it got deleted 

 

“ FFS - sort it out man . Kick some arse and make it happen . Look at @pocster he doesn’t pussy around “

[Dan F]

I always planned to install Powerall (or two) but given we're currently paying 21p to import and on 18-25p to export, it currently makes no sense at all!  Import price is about to go up to 28.5p, but still, there isn't enough difference to justify storage currently.

 

Thing is, I'm sure this isn't always going to be the case, and when I do want a battery in the future it's going to cost me an additional 20%in VAT!

 

In the past batteries have worked well with Octoups Tarrifs but currently:

- Octopus TEP would require I install two powerwalls at great expense to get net metering, which I (albeit only temporarly pherhaps) already have.

- Octopus Agile rarely drops below 35p recently, so is a lot more expensive than the standard variable rate.

- Octopus Go is still attractive if you have EV and/or battery, but if you sign up for Go they kick you off of "agile outgoing" and you so our exports would drop from 18-25p to something like 5.5p.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Dan F

[joth]

13 hours ago, Dan F said:

and on 18-25p to export, it currently makes no sense

Hadn't realised Agile Outgoing was so high. Do they have historic data for the export prices at all?

My assumption was that times of high PV export would equate to times of very low wholesale prices, as the grid would be awash with excess PV. But in the current situation maybe it makes sense

 

13 hours ago, Dan F said:

they kick you off of "agile outgoing" and you so our exports would drop from 18-25p to something like 5.5p.

Standard outgoing is now 7.5p, still not much but the same as the Go cheap rate import

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, joth said:

My assumption was that times of high PV export would equate to times of very low wholesale prices, as the grid would be awash with excess PV.

Coincides with times of peak load also.

There can easily be a 2 fold difference is minimum and maximum grid load.  Industry and commerce in general uses huge amounts of electricity.

[Dan F]

1 hour ago, joth said:

Hadn't realised Agile Outgoing was so high. Do they have historic data for the export prices at all?

My assumption was that times of high PV export would equate to times of very low wholesale prices, as the grid would be awash with excess PV. But in the current situation maybe it makes sense

 

Yeah, I think it's just going to be a temporary situation so will probably proceed with Powerwall before prices go up and while I can still hopefully avod the 20% VAT.

 

Even with Powerwall, I'm pretty sure that Octpus Go/Intelligent isn't going to make sense for me (apart from in the winter months), as I think I'd loose more to reduced export costs than I'd save by importing the minimal additional needed at a reduced price at night.

 

If only there was a way to model this!  Octopus Compare app is great for comparing import tarrifs (and the load shift simulation is really neat), but this ignores the fact that you choice of import tarrif impacts if you can/can't use agile outoing which current gives much better rates than standard export tarriff.

 

Last week we imported 139.28 kWh for about £28 and exported 164.09 kWh for around £34.  On Go, and assuming we could load-shifted 100% of imports (likely impractical with use of oven/hob) we'd have poid £10 for import, but only got £7 for export, so £9 worse off.  As days get longer and solar output increaes, this difference will increase.  The flexible tarrif is about to increase of course, but while agile outgoing prices are high, if you have a fair amount of unused PV, I think it's hard to justify Go.

 

1 hour ago, joth said:

Standard outgoing is now 7.5p, still not much but the same as the Go cheap rate import

I think it's only 4.1p if you are on Go/Intelligent isn't it?

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dan F

[SteamyTea]

18 minutes ago, Dan F said:

 

If only there was a way to model this

First thing to do is to model your current hourly usage.

Then you can see what can realistically be time shifted.

[Thorfun]

54 minutes ago, Dan F said:

so will probably proceed with Powerwall before prices go up

I'd be really interested, if you didn't mind sharing, what your quotes for the PW2 and install is when you get it. my recent quote was £9500 exc VAT which had gone up from £7500 18 months ago. not sure if the installer is taking the Mickey/doesn't want the job or that is now the going rate.

[Dan F]

27 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I'd be really interested, if you didn't mind sharing, what your quotes for the PW2 and install is when you get it. my recent quote was £9500 exc VAT which had gone up from £7500 18 months ago. not sure if the installer is taking the Mickey/doesn't want the job or that is now the going rate.

Have a quote that expires today for 8600+VAT including gateway, surge protection and install.   This supplier wants to charge VAT though and can't zero-rate as I already have PV installed by someone else.  This is why I haven't proceeded with them yet, but now the 60% rule looks like it's going away I'm less concerned about claiming this back.  Still won't be trivial though as PV was zero-rated from one supplier and powerwall would be a vat reclaim and from a different supplier but should go through I think.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dan F

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Dan F said:

Have a quote that expires today for 8600+VAT including gateway, surge protection and install.   This supplier wants to charge VAT though and can't zero-rate as I already have PV installed by someone else.  This is why I haven't proceeded with them yet, but now the 60% rule looks like it's going away I'm less concerned about claiming this back.  Still won't be trivial though as PV was zero-rated from one supplier and powerwall would be a vat reclaim and from a different supplier but should go through I think.

thanks Dan. appreciate it. so my 9.5k isn't too far off the mark. I still think I'll go down the Lux Power and Pylontech route as I can't really afford 9.5k (and maybe + VAT as my PV is already installed as well) at the moment!

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

thanks Dan. appreciate it. so my 9.5k isn't too far off the mark. I still think I'll go down the Lux Power and Pylontech route as I can't really afford 9.5k (and maybe + VAT as my PV is already installed as well) at the moment!

Why can’t you zero rate if battery is installed after pv ? . It’s a new build so vat exempt on supply and install ….

Edited March 30, 2022 by pocster

[Thorfun]

36 minutes ago, pocster said:

Why can’t you zero rate if battery is installed after pv ? . It’s a new build so vat exempt on supply and install ….

I'm not sure, was just voicing concerns in response to other posts about batteries not being zero rated unless supplied as part of the PV. also our battery solution will most likely be supply only so I'll have to claim back from HMRC post completion (assuming I go down that route!).

 

tbh, I have so much else to do and worry about that I'm trying not to think too much about the batteries and am giving it thought cycles as and when I have them spare.

[Pocster]

Just now, Thorfun said:

I'm not sure, was just voicing concerns in response to other posts about batteries not being zero rated unless supplied as part of the PV. also our battery solution will most likely be supply only so I'll have to claim back from HMRC post completion (assuming I go down that route!).

 

tbh, I have so much else to do and worry about that I'm trying not to think too much about the batteries and am giving it thought cycles as and when I have them spare.

I see.

My additional SolarEdge battery is being zero rated ( no issue from the company) yet I have PV already....

 

Yeah -there's a lot of other things to think about I agree; it can be overwhelming .

[Thorfun]

45 minutes ago, pocster said:

I see.

My additional SolarEdge battery is being zero rated ( no issue from the company) yet I have PV already....

 

Yeah -there's a lot of other things to think about I agree; it can be overwhelming .

hmm...yeah. maybe I'll investigate getting an installer to do it and zero rate it. then I don't have to worry about reclaiming VAT. too many options and too many things going around my head!

[Dan F]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Why can’t you zero rate if battery is installed after pv ? . It’s a new build so vat exempt on supply and install ….

Should be able to, but it's bit messy if VAT reclaim has battery but not PV.  (PV was supplied zero-rated).

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

hmm...yeah. maybe I'll investigate getting an installer to do it and zero rate it. then I don't have to worry about reclaiming VAT. too many options and too many things going around my head!

Also installer takes responsibility for it all . Must admit I worry if I bought everything and then have my sparky install it and there’s an issue ( even later on ) . Take the easy route 😁

[Dan F]

50 minutes ago, pocster said:

My additional SolarEdge battery is being zero rated ( no issue from the company) yet I have PV already....

Thought you had powerwall?  I haven't looked at SolarEdge battery, but I beleive not supported by most existing inverters.

[Pocster]

4 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

too many things going around my head!

It’s the middle of the week so the answer is 🍷 

[Pocster]

Just now, Dan F said:

Thought you had powerwall?  I haven't looked at SolarEdge battery, but I beleive not supported by most existing inverters.

I do .

But can’t add another pw as DNO won’t allow . So adding SolarEdge batteries with a SolarEdge inverter ; also extra pv all with SE optimisers .

[Dan F]

1 minute ago, pocster said:

So adding SolarEdge batteries with a SolarEdge inverter

Is that same inverter as for your PV, or a seperate battery inverter?

 

If you were doing his again and there were no availabilitu issues,  would you use powerall only, solaredge batteries only, or use a mix?

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, Dan F said:

Is that same inverter as for your PV, or a seperate battery inverter?

 

If you were doing his again and there were no availabilitu issues,  would you use powerall only, solaredge batteries only, or use a mix?

Erm , um !

I think it’s a new SE inverter for both ( I’m guessing of course ) .

 

Yeah it’s tricky even with hindsight . I choose PW2 because that was the most publicised and reviewed choice I.e other brands were far more limited .

I did regret not getting 3 phase initially - but now it doesn’t really matter .

 

i *guess* if I was starting fresh today I’d go more PV straight away and have 3 SE batteries ( max I think on 1 phase ) .

 

As it stands though I can achieve similar. 1 x PW , 1 x SE battery ( will add another later if it makes sense ) , 4kw pv upgraded to 7.2kw with optimisers .

 

[Thorfun]

12 minutes ago, pocster said:

Erm , um !

I think it’s a new SE inverter for both ( I’m guessing of course ) .

 

Yeah it’s tricky even with hindsight . I choose PW2 because that was the most publicised and reviewed choice I.e other brands were far more limited .

I did regret not getting 3 phase initially - but now it doesn’t really matter .

 

i *guess* if I was starting fresh today I’d go more PV straight away and have 3 SE batteries ( max I think on 1 phase ) .

 

As it stands though I can achieve similar. 1 x PW , 1 x SE battery ( will add another later if it makes sense ) , 4kw pv upgraded to 7.2kw with optimisers .

 

but the Solaredge batteries can't be islanded, right? so in a power cut you're limited to the PW2?

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

but the Solaredge batteries can't be islanded, right? so in a power cut you're limited to the PW2?

I’m not sure tbh So in a power outage ( only ever caused by me ) only the pw2 would kick in is not an issue for me ( I know it is for you ) . Regarding SE and that ‘feature’ best ask installer 

[7750matt]

hi

i've got the luxpower 3.6

with pylontech batteries

works fine

i turned off the chinese internet port.

and i just access it locally.

 

so if solar prediction from the met office API is low, medium or high for my home's needs, it'll charge the batteries high, medium or low, on the off peak from Bulb ev tariff.

 

the luxpower then during the day does everything it can to prevent importing from the grid. it's got a CT clamp on the CU tails, and knows when the grid is importing/feeding in and it tries to invert as much as it can from solar and/or battery to feed the loads instead of pulling from the grid. when the loads calm down, the inverter calsm down to. within a second or two.

 

it's pretty good