Do i have to retract the fact that i called him a W"%ker

[Big Jimbo]

Ok here goes. Alot of effort to get the planning officer to allow me to extend my existing property to about 5 times it original size + double garage, in the Greenbelt...

Split my extant permission into 2 houses with a slightly smaller combined footprint than my large extant permission. Stuck it back in, and got refused. To be fair i had sort of , maybe, bullied him a bit about my first application. (Got a hooker to come on to him in a bar. Do the bizz, and got her to get some photos of him snorting coke from her boobs. Told him i'd make sure that his wife got the pics.)

Only kidding (or am i ?) Anyway, stuck it in for appeal, and got refused. The planning inspectorate said that the extant permission was not reason to override Green Belt Policy. Fair Enough.

Anyway, my permission for my big extension included removing my rights for any other buildings, schedule 2 part E i think. I came on here and said that i was going to put in for permission for some items in my garden. ie: snooker room,  pole dancing room, dog kennel, reptile house, chicken shed, an actual shed, greenhouse, potting shed, workshop, etc, etc etc. The list ended up quite long, and all covered by my removed part E.

Phone conversation with my planning officer yesterday. "Build what you like under part E. Finish them all, and take a load of photo's of the various structures. Do it before you start your planning permission build, and i will attach all of the photo's to your file, so ther will be no prob"

I said. Am i best to leave some time between completing them, and starting my planning permission ? "Nah" he said !!!!!!!! i have always said that planning officers are top fellas. !!!

I don't know if the photo's had anything to do with it. I have asked him to put that in writing, so fingers crossed i can get that out of him in the next few days, and get started. If anybody want's to visit my lap dancing emporium, let me know.

[SteamyTea]

I wondered what Angus Deayton was up to these days, planning officer would suit him.

(we does a radio comedy called Alone)

[ProDave]

So there is a useful message from this.

 

If you get PP for a new build or extension, that removes your permitted development rights, that removal only takes effect when you start the development.

 

So build all the outbuildings you want now, before you start, using the PD rights on the existing structure and you have neatly circumvented the removal of PD rights.

[Big Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So there is a useful message from this.

 

If you get PP for a new build or extension, that removes your permitted development rights, that removal only takes effect when you start the development.

 

So build all the outbuildings you want now, before you start, using the PD rights on the existing structure and you have neatly circumvented the removal of PD rights.

he did go and check my permission, and said that had my application shown any existing structures,  that he would have included that "All existing structures have to be removed before implementing the permission. However, because i had no existing garden structures, he had not included the clause, and that is why we were able to work around it.

[Temp]

Just make sure the new outbuildings do comply with permitted development rules. If you are feeling rich it might be worth considering an application for a lawful Development certificate after building them but before starting the planning permission.

 

I think the CIL may apply to large out buildings? If that applies to you check out the exemption for self builders. If the exemption applies you need the paperwork signed off before any work is done on site.

 

[ProDave]

8 hours ago, Temp said:

I think the CIL may apply to large out buildings? If that applies to you check out the exemption for self builders. If the exemption applies you need the paperwork signed off before any work is done on site.

 

Be careful. could the CIL exemption trigger "starting" the development and so kill the existing PD rights?

[Big Jimbo]

53 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Be careful. could the CIL exemption trigger "starting" the development and so kill the existing PD rights?

I would like to think that 30 sq mt is considered small ( exempt from building regs ) I do have CIL exemption. I had to apply for it at the same time as my planning permission. ??????

[Temp]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

Be careful. could the CIL exemption trigger "starting" the development and so kill the existing PD rights?

Good point. 

 

I think you would have to get the CIL exemption for the outbuildings only, build the outbuildings, then do CIL exemption for the PP. Only then do any work on site relating to the PP. 

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

I would like to think that 30 sq mt is considered small ( exempt from building regs ) I do have CIL exemption. I had to apply for it at the same time as my planning permission. ??????

 

You don't normally have to apply for the exemption at same time as PP. Not even sure that's possible. There are very specific forms you need to fill and replies to receive before starting work or you loose it.

 

The 30sqm limit is only needed to avoid building control approval for the structure of an outbuilding. Its not needed to avoid planning permission for the outbuildings. You can build bigger outbuildings without needing PP.

 

If your outbuildings have drainage and electricity you may still need Building Control involved.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Temp

[Big Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, Temp said:

Good point. 

 

I think you would have to get the CIL exemption for the outbuildings only, build the outbuildings, then do CIL exemption for the PP. Only then do any work on site relating to the PP. 

Temp. I don't know which is why i'm asking. Currently i have a small Bungalow, and full PD rights. Why would i need to get a CIL exemption for a 30sq mt shed in my garden ? Why would building my large shed now, before i start my extension, as advised by the planning officer, be a problem. Would this invalidate the CIL exemption i have got (only property) on my bungalow extension ???

[Temp]

If it's just 30sqm you wouldn't need CIL exemption. But you mentioned..

 

19 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

snooker room,  pole dancing room, dog kennel, reptile house, chicken shed, an actual shed, greenhouse, potting shed, workshop,

 

So I thought you had bigger plans :-)

[Big Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

You don't normally have to apply for the exemption at same time as PP. Not even sure that's possible. There are very specific forms you need to fill and replies to receive before starting work or you loose it.

 

The 30sqm limit is only needed to avoid building control approval for the structure of an outbuilding. Its not needed to avoid planning permission for the outbuildings. You can build bigger outbuildings without needing PP.

 

If your outbuildings have drainage and electricity you may still need Building Control involved.

You do apply in Dacorum at the same time., and i got my letter saying that my PP is exempt from CIL. I know that if i put electrics or drainage in i will have to comply with building regs.

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Temp said:

If it's just 30sqm you wouldn't need CIL exemption. But you mentioned..

 

 

So I thought you had bigger plans ?

My application, was a micky take, because i thought it was a joke that they had taken away my rights. It was taken by the planning officer in good spirit, and has now been binned.I actually only want a good size large shed/workshop of 30 sq mts

[scottishjohn]

2 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

I know that if i put electrics or drainage in i will have to comply with building regs.

that will be the trigger 

its then no longer a garden shed

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

that will be the trigger 

its then no longer a garden shed

Yeah but i wont put any drainage, or electrics in untill i finish my bungalow. In the meantime i can power it with an extension lead.

So, i build my shed now, no electrics or drainage. Then start my planning permission. Complete it and get it signed off. Then if i wanted to run some power and drainage to my shed and get it signed off. The one thing i do not want to do is screw up my CIL exemption.

[Temp]

Here are the forms you must normally fill in to claim the exemption. You don't need all of them. See the 4 steps described at top of form 7 part 1. Some people have lost the exemption by not following the 4 steps exactly. Note some things must be done before work starts and some after construction is completed.

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200136/policy_and_legislation/70/community_infrastructure_levy/5

 

Note it says "before commencement of the development", that would be the commencement of the PP.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Temp

[scottishjohn]

Just now, Big Jimbo said:

Yeah but i wont put any drainage, or electrics in untill i finish my bungalow. In the meantime i can power it with an extension lead.

So, i build my shed now, no electrics or drainage. Then start my planning permission. Complete it and get it signed off. Then if i wanted to run some power and drainage to my shed and get it signed off. The one thing i do not want to do is screw up my CIL exemption.

my suggestion is when you lay your concrete base -put bog pipe in there just under surface _and any other service pentrations (service ducts )- block up-and cover with thin concrete  --then easy to open up later, even if you don,t connect to drains at this time --easy to dig soil  later

work out your drops now 

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

my suggestion is when you lay your concrete base -put bog pipe in there just under surface _and any other service pentrations (service ducts )- block up-and cover with thin concrete  --then easy to open up later, even if you don,t connect to drains at this time --easy to dig soil  later

work out your drops now 

Intended to do just that fella. Not many people want a shed that big, so before i sell i can stick a wc and shower in, and although it might not get me any more money for the house, it will be a bonus Gym etc for anybody in the future.

[scottishjohn]

8 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Intended to do just that fella. Not many people want a shed that big, so before i sell i can stick a wc and shower in, and although it might not get me any more money for the house, it will be a bonus Gym etc for anybody in the future.

or rental from 20 illegal immigrants for housing.LOL

[SteamyTea]

On 15/11/2019 at 09:00, Big Jimbo said:

I would like to think that 30 sq mt is considered smal

Still bigger than the footprint of my house.

[scottishjohn]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Still bigger than the footprint of my house.

so it has a foot print less than 6m x5m-?

my living room is that size --and its not a big  house

 

 

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

so it has a foot print less than 6m x5m-?

4 by 7ish

48 m² in total internal space.

 

One of the reasons that I bang on about small housing being dreadful.

There are 6 houses where I am, and 15 people, soon to be 16.

So that will be 18 m² per person.

Once you take away kitchens, bathroom and stairway, hall and landing, you are down to ~12 m².

Some vehicles are larger.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SteamyTea

[scottishjohn]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

4 by 7

48 m² in total.

 

One of the reasons that I bang on about small housing being dreadful.

There are 6 houses where I am, and 15 people, soon to be 16.

So that will be 18 m² per person.

Once you take away kitchens, bathroom and stairway, hall and landing, you are down to ~12 m².

Some vehicles are larger.

4 x7 =28   ?

6 x8 =48

got a plan of it  for interest  sounds about right sizre for a holiday chalet

[SteamyTea]

The 4 m by 7 m are the outside dimensions.

It is on two levels, so that is 56 m².

It then looses half a metre because of walls, so 3.5m by 6.5m.

45.5 m².

Then there is the small porch for the front door (where you can't easily open both doors at the same time.

Cornwall has many small places like this (several hundred around the corner from me).

And yes, it is chalet sized.

 

 

 

 

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

The 4 m by 7 m are the outside dimensions.

It is on two levels, so that is 56 m².

It then looses half a metre because of walls, so 3.5m by 6.5m.

45.5 m².

Then there is the small porch for the front door (where you can't easily open both doors at the same time.

Cornwall has many small places like this (several hundred around the corner from me).

And yes, it is chalet sized.

 

 

 

 

why they so small  --plot prices?