Building contracts

[Grendel]

Our new build is a funny shape ( has a circular tower),  funny material ( velox), has a basement, is on a slope etc. etc

Builders seem to view it as complex and pile in 100% risk factor £££ when providing a fixed price tender.

Some builders are happier to share some of the risk with a time and materials contract, or a cost +% contract.

Does anyone know of a contract suitable for a main contractor not based on a fixed price?

What is a reasonable day rate for the boss of small building company to charge assuming that some of the time he will be project managing and other times he will be labouring.

If we go for a time and materials contract do we need a QS to monitor the costs or materials claimed or should I assume that I can do the monitoring?

Thanks!! 

[nod]

You can certainly do the monitoring of the materials. If you are using them yourself you could get a fixed price for the foundations and, for the basic structure and roof. The more bespoke aspects could be done on a day rate. 
I’m doing a large contract exactly like this and it’s working well for the client and myself. 

Cost 

If the contractor knows his stuff and prices enough to give a decent return and that you can live with he may be happy to do the rest at cost at say £250 per day and take a set fee for managing the remainder of the job 

If these are paid on a weekly basis it will help with his cash flow as most of our jobs are paying 60 days or even 90 days

 

Trust me there are only Self builders that worry about paying their bills on time 

[Nickfromwales]

Open accounts with the respective suppliers. 

Approve the materials on request and make the orders yourself. 
 

VAT trail is neat and tidy, and it’s a very effective method for controlling materials overspend. You do due diligence, and prices are kept as low as practicable. 

Labour only; 

Pay wages for the guys / gals on site weekly, 7 days in arrears, and be 1000% prompt each Friday / Saturday ( if invoices are  suitably surrendered ) with no excuses. Funds need to be at hand no matter what so you can make those payments religiously. 
 

Bespoke is difficult to cost, but any decent  builder can employ their own QS for their own reassurance BEFORE summarising. You’ll pay for that service ( indirectly ) anyway, so why not QS it yourself and administer the results to your contractors with you in the driving seat   

 

If you have a fixed set of plans then this is do-able. You just need a contractor who can fragment this into known-knows and known-unknown’s. The former fixed, the latter variable. 
Fair all round then, with a view to where costs could escalate, and %’s of unknown liability being ‘reasonably’ identifiable from the outset.
After that it’s in for a penny, in for a pound. Whatever difficulties your contractors suffer will simply come out of the coffers, AFTER they’ve demonstrated them to you before hand.

Do not allow the contractors to undertake any ‘extras’ without prior approval, and give them documented correspondence stating any such work, undertaken without said prior approval, will not be paid for. It’s then easy for you to identify if they’re squeezing you for more money when they just have to work hard, rather than having actually needed to carry out unidentified / genuine extra work.

Oh, and if you want this to go smoothly, you’ll want a project manager / project coordinator to keep a finger on the pulse. That person ( can be yourselves ) needs to be available, by phone at the minimum, EVERY working day. Or, agree a fee, day rate + X %, for the lead builder to take on that roll. 
 

Sounds like you may need to be at the helm a lot here, particularly at the outset, to get the ship onto calm waters... ?

[scottishjohn]

could velox  agent not suggest someone to use who built with it before?

 have you run your plans by velox ? to make sure  what you are doing is the right way 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Why not simplify your build, why use velox which is square and blocky, use a product more suited to radius builds so it looks simpler to the builder. 

If it looks odd they will add on nuisance factor. 

[Grendel]

On 25/10/2019 at 21:28, nod said:

You can certainly do the monitoring of the materials. If you are using them yourself you could get a fixed price for the foundations and, for the basic structure and roof. The more bespoke aspects could be done on a day rate. 
I’m doing a large contract exactly like this and it’s working well for the client and myself. 

Cost 

If the contractor knows his stuff and prices enough to give a decent return and that you can live with he may be happy to do the rest at cost at say £250 per day and take a set fee for managing the remainder of the job 

If these are paid on a weekly basis it will help with his cash flow as most of our jobs are paying 60 days or even 90 days

 

Trust me there are only Self builders that worry about paying their bills on time 

 

What sort of contract are you using with some bits day rate and some fixed price?

Is there a JCT contract that suits this sort of arrangement?

thanks

[Grendel]

On 26/10/2019 at 09:04, scottishjohn said:

could velox  agent not suggest someone to use who built with it before?

 have you run your plans by velox ? to make sure  what you are doing is the right way 

 

Velox is happy with the plans, and have suggested people who have built in this before. But there are not many experienced Velox builders around, or they are 200 miles away, and they are busy until 2010, or they want silly money for a fixed price build

 

On 26/10/2019 at 18:26, Russell griffiths said:

Why not simplify your build, why use velox which is square and blocky, use a product more suited to radius builds so it looks simpler to the builder. 

If it looks odd they will add on nuisance factor. 

Good thought. But builders seem not so familiar with a circular build regardless of material. Were you thinking of curved SIPs? or just brick and block?

[Russell griffiths]

Just now, Grendel said:

Velox is happy with the plans, and have suggested people who have built in this before. But there are not many experienced Velox builders around, or they are 200 miles away, and they are busy until 2010, or they want silly money for a fixed price build

 

Good thought. But builders seem not so familiar with a circular build regardless of material. Were you thinking of curved SIPs? or just brick and block?

No use an icf product that has a radius form, I used nudura for my icf and I know they have a radius form. 

[scottishjohn]

Is the whole build being done in some form of ICF  eg velox ,or just the round bit ?

as @Russell griffiths has said plenty of icf suppiers that make adjustable form to  do round shapes

.curved sips --never seen them

[Grendel]

On 01/11/2019 at 09:11, scottishjohn said:

Is the whole build being done in some form of ICF  eg velox ,or just the round bit ?

as @Russell griffiths has said plenty of icf suppiers that make adjustable form to  do round shapes

.curved sips --never seen them

Yes, whole build is Velox. The curved section is a 60 sided thrupenny bit

[scottishjohn]

55 minutes ago, Grendel said:

Yes, whole build is Velox. The curved section is a 60 sided thrupenny bit

keep looking for a builder then -- most are just scared of what they have not used before