Shell820810 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Opinions please - more poorly skilled tradesmen Our normal tiler isn't working at the minute so we got someone recommended throughout a business colleague of the hubbies (and will be paid through that colleague). The tiles we have are 10mm very hard porcelain and the main tiler had to get a new cutter to go through them. I told the new guy that and he has ended up nipping the tile to cut it. The edge is jagged and the glaze has been scraped off. He says grout will cover this. But it means the grout line wont be in line with other tiles that were already laid. Its only a few tiles on the floor around the edge of the mosaicked wetfloor. But they are dear tiles to replace. I think there was also a lot of breakages trying to get them cut in the first place. He had about 20no 112 x 45 wall tiles to put up. He has chipped corners on at least 4 of these. The corner where two walls meet the tiles haven't been cut straight, so there is a no gap at the top of a tile, and 2-3mm at the bottom. This is the case the whole way up the wall. I am really disappointed. They have laid 9/10 sqm of wall tile, 2-3m of floor tile downstairs 5sqm floor, 8 sqm of wall upstairs. This was smaller porcelain and ceramic tiles and seems to have been ok. 2 men in two days. They are getting paid on time. Hubby thinks just leave the chipped tiles as they are and get them to finish. I think pull the chipped ones off and salvage what we can, wait on the normal tiler and only pay the fellas for 1 day. Only issue with this is that it may be the hubby's colleague that takes the hit (pays the tillers in full despite us only giving half and he was only trying to do us a favour) Up to this, the tiling was the only trade that we seemed to have any luck with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Very hard to comment without pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell820810 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Here is the corner. This was done yesterday and we pulled him on it, and he assured me grout would sort that. The jagged edges and chips were only noticed this evening and I have no photos yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I'm sure @Nickfromwales will be along shortly but that doesnt look too bad to me from that distance. The corners will need a mastic bead anyway (In a colour to match the grout) which will certainly hide a 2-3mm difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell820810 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Barney12 said: I'm sure @Nickfromwales will be along shortly but that doesnt look too bad to me from that distance. The corners will need a mastic bead anyway (In a colour to match the grout) which will certainly hide a 2-3mm difference. What's a mastic bead? That hasn't been mentioned, just grout. I was assured that the corner could be tided so was happy to let that go, but its the chipped tiles and the way they cut the floor tiles. If they hadnt the equipment to do it right I would've preferred they just said and we could've waited. Edited October 4, 2016 by Shell820810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Well to the best of my understanding corners are always finished with a mastic sealant as grout will crack with movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's not the worst I have ever seen to be fair. You will still notice it as at the bottom of the tile there will be hardly any grout but at the top there will be 2-3mm. Might need a bead of sealant if you can get one to match the grout up the edge so it looks like on continuous bead all at the same width. The only way I could cut my porcelain tiles was to score and snap using a good tile cutter. Even with a wet tile cutter it still flaked off some of the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Mastic bead aka line of silicone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) Well to the best of my understanding corners are always finished with a mastic sealant as grout will crack with movement. Grout does do an amazing job of hiding slight imperfections but thats not the mentality to have and what your describing doesn't sound great. I was always taught that you plan your tile layout so you always have a cut tile into the corner. That way you can deal with any differences if the corner is out of true. But if cutting has caused issue that might not help! Edited October 4, 2016 by Barney12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Ok. First schollboy error is the tiles on the shower wall should have gone on first. That way, when you look down the tray at that elevation you'll not see the cut, you'd just see tile on tile as the cut and grout line would be to the left, at the end of the run. Not the end of the world. The cuts aren't that bad tbh. Rectified edge porcelain is a bitch to cut, but I totally agree with you that if you ain't got the tools, stay at home. FYI, my Rubi tile cutter ( 900mm scribe and snap ) cost me nearly £400. It cuts like a laser and I often find it difficult to spot which was the cut and which was the factory edge, I shit you not. Rectified edge porcelain is very often damaged in transit. I religiously check all 4 corners of a tile before I stick adhesive on it and lay it. If it looks like it's had a bump ( come out of a pack with damage to the cardboard ) then I'll run my hands over the corners one at a time to see if a chip or splinter is going to come away. If you don't do this then it's going to bite you on the arse as it's easy to lay a few without realising. Fwiw, I've had many jobs where I've had to smash a tile out after I've fitted a duff one. Shit happens. I don't, however, leave them in and try to 'get away' with it. , that's lazy. Any pics of the floor tile / mosaic issues? PS, I don't often use silicone as the vertical finial finish in a prominent corner, I think it looks tacky and scruffy, even the colured ones. The only thing I'll do, ( as stated above to combat movement cracking and guarantee water tightness ), is apply a thin bead of clear CT1 and then finger it in tight as I can get it. I'll then remove the excess with a lint free cloth and some CT1 MultiSolve spray to make sure it's as inconspicuous as possible. It also doesn't 'shine' like silicone does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafaldina Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Nick, you are so helpful. Do you have time to eat, work and play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell820810 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 36 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Ok. First schollboy error is the tiles on the shower wall should have gone on first. That way, when you look down the tray at that elevation you'll not see the cut, you'd just see tile on tile as the cut and grout line would be to the left, at the end of the run. Not the end of the world. The cuts aren't that bad tbh. Rectified edge porcelain is a bitch to cut, but I totally agree with you that if you ain't got the tools, stay at home. FYI, my Rubi tile cutter ( 900mm scribe and snap ) cost me nearly £400. It cuts like a laser and I often find it difficult to spot which was the cut and which was the factory edge, I shit you not. Rectified edge porcelain is very often damaged in transit. I religiously check all 4 corners of a tile before I stick adhesive on it and lay it. If it looks like it's had a bump ( come out of a pack with damage to the cardboard ) then I'll run my hands over the corners one at a time to see if a chip or splinter is going to come away. If you don't do this then it's going to bite you on the arse as it's easy to lay a few without realising. Fwiw, I've had many jobs where I've had to smash a tile out after I've fitted a duff one. Shit happens. I don't, however, leave them in and try to 'get away' with it. , that's lazy. Any pics of the floor tile / mosaic issues? PS, I don't often use silicone as the vertical 'final' finish in a prominent corner, I think it looks tacky and scruffy, even the colured ones. The only thing I'll do, ( as stated above to combat movement cracking and guarantee water tightness ), is apply a thin bead of clear CT1 and then finger it in tight as I can get it. I'll then remove the excess with a lint free cloth and some CT1 MultiSolve spray to make sure it's as inconspicuous as possible. It also doesn't 'shine' like silicone does. No other photos yet. I knew the tiles were difficult and forewarned him. I rang this evening and said I wasn't happy with the standard of work. He said one tile was chipped when he took it out of the box. He knew another one the wall was chipped but didn't notice any other chipped ones. I think most of the damage is from the cutter not doing a clean cut. Wall and floor tiles in this room are the same tile in different formats.would you leave tiles up that don't have sharp corners on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 No. It will be quite obvious when grouted tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 another toy for the list....rubi tile cutter!!! looks a impressive piece of kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said: another toy for the list....rubi tile cutter!!! looks a impressive piece of kit! The one I bought. I found mine ( elsewhere ) on eBay, and contacted the company directly. Saved the eBay fees so it was a bit cheaper and still free delivery. 4 beers is 4 beers whichever way you cut it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Unless you have a lot of tiling to do the Rubi tile cutter is the rolls Royce of tile cutters. As nick does it for living it will make is money in no time. You would be better hiring one out if it's a use once tool as at that money you won't want to lend it out to friends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Unfortunately I have a lot of tiling to do..... also I believe if you buy wisely then usually the second hand value plus the cost of renting is way more than just buying the tool! I used a cheap water cooled diamond table saw last time and it made a mess of the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I have a Vitrex 600mm wet cut tile saw bench and I found the quality of the blade affected how clean the cut was more than anything. I use a Vitex Ultimate diamond blade. As the tiles are 705mm long I hired a Rubi 900mm snap cutter for the long cuts. I found the tile saw bench good for short cuts and notching etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell820810 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Some photos, not the best camera though Floor tiles, next to shower floor Wall tiles Top right hand corner Corner beside cardboard Edited October 5, 2016 by Shell820810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Oh dear that's "less good". Personally I'd be removing him from site right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell820810 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 minutes ago, Barney12 said: Oh dear that's "less good". Personally I'd be removing him from site right now. I don't think he will be back, but its just whether to replace tiles and what to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shell820810 said: I don't think he will be back, but its just whether to replace tiles and what to pay him. In the normal commercial/contracting world you would pay him his agreed rate less a reasonable "contra charge". That charge will include the removal cost, replacement material cost and refitting of the area that he completed. It is likely that contra will put his costs into negative territory but there would be little point in pursuing that. Just write to him setting out the basis of your contra charge (it needs to be real). You do need to give him the option of putting right his work at his cost but you can be specific about how long he has got to a)accept that option b)complete the work. The decision on replacing has to be one only you can make and will be a balance of cost, time and your ability to accept the aesthetics of the errors. What I would say is that at this stage these sorts of snags are in sharp focus, as more of the fabric of the room is completed these errors will fade. Also over time you will come to "forget they were there" and will find yourself pointing it out to other people who will say "if you hadn't have pointed it out I would have never noticed". But, I completely understand that is easier to write than live with!! Good luck. Edited October 5, 2016 by Barney12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 If that's plasterboard, then it'll be the whole wall if they don't want to come off. Very often, the two won't separate without the surface paper of the PB being damaged / tearing away completely, which will render the board useless. If only minimal break out you'll need to PVA, let it dry, then use a cenentitous ( powder adhesive ) accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell820810 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Not plasterboard, its block. Edited October 5, 2016 by Shell820810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 hours ago, Shell820810 said: Some photos, not the best camera though That's grim! Did he nibble the whole length of a tile to cut it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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