B.Regs confusion (zoot's ext).

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps-

 

in the last stages of prep for my Wales extention. 10 days wait on a final NMA addition yes/ no.

 

What I need to establish next, is what I need to do on the "Building Regs" front. I'm confused as to whether I need to apply for this.. & what exactly it is that I'm applying for. I have a Haynes Manual but so hyper-detailed that I think/ it seems that the B.Regs apply thing is an either/or situation.

 

Can anyone help me out? thanks, zoot.

Edited August 21, 2019 by zoothorn

[Jeremy Harris]

As it looks to be a fairly straightforward job, I'd be inclined to do it under a building notice, rather than a full plans submission.  If your builder is familiar with building extensions he should be OK with this.  Details of the way the building notice scheme works are here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200137/how_to_get_approval/78/pre-site_approval/3

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[zoothorn]

23 hours ago, JSHarris said:

As it looks to be a fairly straightforward job, I'd be inclined to do it under a building notice, rather than a full plans submission.  If your builder is familiar with building extensions he should be OK with this.  Details of the way the building notice scheme works are here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200137/how_to_get_approval/78/pre-site_approval/3

 

Hi JSH. Ok I can get my head around the basics of what you explain. But I just can't understand it really, having never been in this situation.

 

So, let me get this correct. I have two options: a "full plans submission," & "under a building notice". Is this "building notice" something to do with "Building Regs"? or does it 'bypass' the need for BR's.. & if so how do I know whether what I am building complies with "Building Regs"?

 

I am vaguely aware that some sort of "sign it off" finality happens. Surely this has to be from two depts: the PP dept to make sure I've not built it 2x the size I applied for, & the BRegs dept to make sure I've no exposed wires & a balsa wood balcony.

 

As you can tell I'm in a complete pickle with understanding both the "Building Regs" protocol/ what I'm meant to do next, & what avenue I should take if I have choices. Then how to impliment this choice.

Edited August 21, 2019 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

48 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

As a bit of a counter to @JSHarris above - I never recommend people working on building notices.

If you have a good builder up to date with the current building regs then it might work out ok, but you are placing all the onus on a builder to comply with building regs, build what you want and keep on top of the costs, what happens if building control ask for some additional work and it needs work to be undone - you end up with a bill for extras. 

What if the builder has quoted on x amount of insulation but it doesn't quite comply with the current regs (it's just "what they've always done")

If you have fully approved building regs drawings they are much better place to get quotes and prices from, if you leave it all up to the builder it can go sideways quickly (this imo, is the biggest reason "cowboy builders" are a massive problem in England and Wales)

 

 

Hi there- I understand I think that this is the safe & most sensible route, & I think apt for any fairly large project with a builder unfamiliar with. But mine is a simple box addition extention + roof design, with the most experienced builder/ best reputation around here, 65, who I am absolutely sure knows how to build this with all the BRegs basics covered. He employs his chosen workforce, the best chippie, the best brickie etc & oversees the job. He even has a direct link to the cottage as his ancestors lived here.

 

I'm not understanding the last paragraph, which implies I'd be in a better position to "get quotes" from such detailed building regs plans. My understanding, from the huge list of 'steps' I need (& currently on no.18 of 20 as it were) to take to get this build underway.. is that the detailed plans are no.19 as it were, & the quote from the builder.. would be no.5 as it were. So I don't see how the two are compatible, or could have any direct link, at such a late stage.

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Jeremy Harris]

13 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi JSH. Ok I can get my head around the basics of what you explain. But I just can't understand it really, having never been in this situation.

 

So, let me get this correct. I have two options: a "full plans submission," & "under a building notice". Is this "building notice" something to do with "Building Regs"? or does it 'bypass' the need for BR's.. & if so how do I know whether what I am building complies with "Building Regs"?

 

I am vaguely aware that some sort of "sign it off" finality happens. Surely this has to be from two depts: the PP dept to make sure I've not built it 2x the size I applied for, & the BRegs dept to make sure I've no exposed wires & a balsa wood balcony.

 

As you can tell I'm in a complete pickle with understanding both the "Building Regs" protocol/ what I'm meant to do next, & what avenue I should take if I have choices. Then how to impliment this choice.

 

 

First off, the extension needs to be built to comply with the building regulations, and in your case that covers things like the structural integrity, insulation levels, means of escape from fire, prevention of spread of fire and the dimensions of the staircase, plus things like the electrical installation.

 

Your job is to demonstrate that the extension complies with these regulations, and you can do that in one of two ways:

 

You can choose to produce a set of detailed drawings, plus documents outlining how the extension complies with the various regulations, and submit them for full plans approval, before you start work.  The inspections you have during the building work will then focus mainly on whether the extension is being built exactly as is in the approval.  This is the way houses are usually built, and you can get an idea of what is needed from this page in my blog, which has all the drawings and documents I produced for our full plans submission: http://www.mayfly.eu/2013/09/part-fifteen-the-site-is-finally-ready/

 

Or, as your extension is just a pretty simple two room one, with no complications, you could choose to use the Building Notice approach.  This means notifying building control that you intend to demonstrate compliance with the regs this way, then relying on your builder to get things right.  There will be building inspections, much as with the full plans submission, but these inspections will sign off that the build is compliant at each stage, so there will be more detail gathered during each inspection.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages with both methods.  For a simple job, the full plans submission may be more costly and time consuming, as an experienced builder may well not really need much in the way of detail, as most tend to use standard details that they know are OK (the exception being the cowboys).  The building notice approach does mean taking a bit more risk, in that you are trusting your builder to get things right at each inspection stage.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

23 hours ago, JSHarris said:

As it looks to be a fairly straightforward job, I'd be inclined to do it under a building notice, rather than a full plans submission.  If your builder is familiar with building extensions he should be OK with this.  Details of the way the building notice scheme works are here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200137/how_to_get_approval/78/pre-site_approval/3

 

 

Hi JSH. Ok without me needing to fully understand the difference between my 2 options (I do understand a vague notion tho): let's say I do consider the "do it under a building notice" option. I'm still a flapping fish out of water/ have no idea how I am proceeding along this avenue.

 

Do I click on the "Apply for Building Regs Approval" yellow button on your link (many thanks btw- Id never have found this), & somewhere next I find the two options > to take the 'building notice' avenue? Or is clicking on this button the opposite of what I am trying to do/ this is soley the "full plans submission" route? I can't see any info with the words 'building notice' yet you see.

 

Do I need "Building Regs Approval".. whichever option I take? or not neccessarily?

[Jeremy Harris]

7 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

 

Hi JSH. Ok without me needing to fully understand the difference between my 2 options (I do understand a vague notion tho): let's say I do consider the "do it under a building notice" option. I'm still a flapping fish out of water/ have no idea how I am proceeding along this avenue.

 

Do I click on the "Apply for Building Regs Approval" yellow button on your link (many thanks btw- Id never have found this), & somewhere next I find the two options > to take the 'building notice' avenue? Or is clicking on this button the opposite of what I am trying to do/ this is soley the "full plans submission" route? I can't see any info with the words 'building notice' yet you see.

 

Do I need "Building Regs Approval".. whichever option I take? or not neccessarily?

 

You need the build to be approved as being compliant with the regs either way.  Both methods will end up with you getting a completion certificate, which is proof of compliance.

 

It really comes down to whether or not you prefer to pay for someone to produce a set of drawings and documents to show compliance before you start work, or whether you prefer to rely on a builder to demonstrate detailed compliance with the regs as he builds the extension.

 

A good builder will have done many similar small jobs before, will probably know all the local building inspectors, and so be familiar with everything that they require.  A poor builder might be a bit of a cowboy who cuts corners and tries to pull the wool over the building inspectors eyes, and that may well cause problems during the build.

 

Why not have a chat with your builder, explain your concern about the different ways to demonstrate building regs compliance, and see what he says?  You could ask him outright whether he thinks that working under a building notice is preferable to working under a full plans approval or not.

[zoothorn]

@JSHarris ok thanks alot for the clear explanation. I understand the two options, but I'm very confident in going the building notice route.

 

Ok so its now a Q of how I take this building notice route.

[Mr Punter]

Do a full plans submission. You would otherwise be at risk of the building inspector coming up with something unexpected late on when it will mean undoing a lot of work.

 

I am getting an extension signed off for a friend where the builder went AWOL and the friend was left with no completion certificate. Luckily they had a full plans submission so when I met the building inspector and he made some extra requests and I was able to query them as they were not picked up on the plan check so we did not have to do them.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, zoothorn said:

@JSHarris ok thanks alot for the clear explanation. I understand the two options, but I'm very confident in going the building notice route.

 

Ok so its now a Q of how I take this building notice route.

 

Best chat to your builder, confirm he's OK with working under a building notice, then submit the notice. 

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

A good builder will have done many similar small jobs before, will probably know all the local building inspectors, and so be familiar with everything that they require. 

 

This is exactly the case, even speaking to the BCO (v.likely the one designated for the build) he spoke well of my builder/ both know each other well from many builds, over decades. This is exactly why I'm confident in my builder, to do this particular pretty straightforward job.

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Best chat to your builder, confirm he's OK with working under a building notice, then submit the notice. 

 

Ok I will call him tonight to clarify exactly if he's happy to work under a 'building notice' for this job.

 

Actually I think I have done this/ had this conversation last week here with him explaining if he's happy with this option.. & that my arctct chap now not on board: & he seemed fine, &, as a result he's said all he needs is a plan with the critical dims on, no need for a detailed plan. I asked if he might have an eg of a prior build, & he came round next day with a big plan showing me what it can be condensed to, for him (for me to do)/ fine.

[zoothorn]

12 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Best chat to your builder, confirm he's OK with working under a building notice, then submit the notice. 

 

 

Ok so let's assume he is ok with this. How then, do I "apply for" or "submit a building notice?" I can't see these two words, or a yellow box option with these words on the link you kindly put up ^ before.

[Jeremy Harris]

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

 

Ok so let's assume he is ok with this. How then, do I "apply for" or "submit a building notice?" I can't see these two words, or a yellow box option with these words on the link you kindly put up ^ before.

 

 

You usually need to submit a building notice application directly to your local building control body.  You may be able to do this online, or they may require it to be done by post.  A quick look suggests that this might be your local authority, and it looks as if you need to contact them: https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/resident/planning-building-control-and-sustainable-drainage-body-sab/planning-building-control/building-control/applications-for-building-regulations/

 

Looks like this is the fees document:https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/5112/building-regulations-fees-and-charges.pdf

 

and this is the application form: https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/3883/building-regulations-application-form.docx

[zoothorn]

19 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Do a full plans submission. You would otherwise be at risk of the building inspector coming up with something unexpected late on when it will mean undoing a lot of work.

 

I am getting an extension signed off for a friend where the builder went AWOL and the friend was left with no completion certificate. Luckily they had a full plans submission so when I met the building inspector and he made some extra requests and I was able to query them as they were not picked up on the plan check so we did not have to do them.

 

Totally understand Mr. Punter, that this is the best option thanks for the reply. One reason I actually feel I don't have this choice/ avenue.. is my archtct chap would take months to do it. Prior to agreeing to settle up for work done last week, its been 1.5 yrs since we last spoke (waiting on build quote mainly) so asking him now to continue with a *build plan > submit, him rarely in UK.. would set the build back months. I have the opportunity, my builder could crack on with this in ~october. If I wait it for this *best option.. I could be looking at another 6 months. The stress too much- I'd have to scrap idea/ I couldn't cope. I got PP back in nov '17.. & being so close to conceivably/ actually getting the damn thing built -finally- means I HAVE to grab the opportunity whilst its viable.

 

Thankfully its NOT a compromise though.. bc I -do- have confidence in my builder as said.

 

thx zoot

[zoothorn]

16 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

You usually need to submit a building notice application directly to your local building control body.  You may be able to do this online, or they may require it to be done by post.  A quick look suggests that this might be your local authority, and it looks as if you need to contact them: https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/resident/planning-building-control-and-sustainable-drainage-body-sab/planning-building-control/building-control/applications-for-building-regulations/

 

Looks like this is the fees document:https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/5112/building-regulations-fees-and-charges.pdf

 

and this is the application form: https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/3883/building-regulations-application-form.docx

 

Thanks so much JSH. I need a break/ got another stress headache trying to understand all this. Once refreshed I'll dip into these links PM. I'm off for a walk on seafront in town- best respite. grateful- zoot

 

 

[zoothorn]

Ok I'm trying to establish from the fees link JSH above put up https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/5112/building-regulations-fees-and-charges.pdf which mine might be. I think its section B.. & fifth one down @ £555.60 (Building Notice, RHS).

 

My floor area is 4.5m x 4m = 18.

 

I admit a wild stab in the dark, as most of this page I cannot understand so likely I'm totally on the wrong track. For eg, I cannot establish if Table B1 applies, &/ or Table C, &/ or Table D.

 

Thanks, zoot

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok I'm trying to establish from the fees link JSH above put up https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/5112/building-regulations-fees-and-charges.pdf which mine might be. I think its section B.. & fifth one down @ £555.60 (Building Notice, RHS).

 

My floor area is 4.5m x 4m = 18.

 

I admit a wild stab in the dark, as most of this page I cannot understand so likely I'm totally on the wrong track. For eg, I cannot establish if Table B1 applies, &/ or Table C, &/ or Table D.

 

Thanks, zoot

 

 

The floor area is just under 29m² (the figure to use is the sum of the internal floor areas of all floors), so the fee looks to be £636 inc VAT (6th row down in Table B).

[zoothorn]

22 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

You usually need to submit a building notice application directly to your local building control body.  You may be able to do this online, or they may require it to be done by post.  A quick look suggests that this might be your local authority, and it looks as if you need to contact them: https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/resident/planning-building-control-and-sustainable-drainage-body-sab/planning-building-control/building-control/applications-for-building-regulations/

 

Looks like this is the fees document:https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/5112/building-regulations-fees-and-charges.pdf

 

and this is the application form: https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/media/3883/building-regulations-application-form.docx

 

This 2nd application form, is in the dreaded pdf. format which I couldn't access before. Ok 1st I need to establish what I'm putting in the form/ what section applies to me from the prior fees document.. then try & find a way of accessing this form.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

 

This 2nd application form, is in the dreaded pdf. format which I couldn't access before. Ok 1st I need to establish what I'm putting in the form/ what section applies to me from the prior fees document.. then try & find a way of accessing this form.

 

 

The form seems to be a normal Microsoft Word document, rather than a .pdf.  I've just opened it and it seems to be easy enough to fill in.

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

The floor area is just under 29m² (the figure to use is the sum of the internal floor areas of all floors), so the fee looks to be £636 inc VAT (6th row down in Table B).

 

Hi JSH.. jeepers yet another thing I can't understand. How did you get to 29sqM?? my sum of lwr + top doesn't tally with 29 (it would be 18 +18)

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

The form seems to be a normal Microsoft Word document, rather than a .pdf.  I've just opened it and it seems to be easy enough to fill in.

 

Yes I 've got in in Word 07.. but like before I can get the cursor flashing/ ready on a box.. but I can't put any text in.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi JSH.. jeepers yet another thing I can't understand. How did you get to 29sqM?? my sum of lwr + top doesn't tally with 29 (it would be 18 +18)

 

 

It's the internal floor area of both floors.  Each floor has an internal area of 14.43m² (3.7m x 3.9m), so both floors added together = 28.86m²