Oxbow16

It's part of the reason, yes. And whilst I might not put it on crops where it is in direct contact with the edible parts of the plant, I definitely aim to use it on fruit trees, berries, etc. Note however that Joseph Jenkins (Humanure author) uses it on ALL his food crops. Well rotted for 2 years+ of course. It's not a new build. It's a part renovation on a house. There's a septic tank here already, and all necessary plumbing/drainage is in place. Septic tanks are perfectly acceptable. In fact, SEPA and NRW prefer a septic tank and drainage field over a sewage treatment plant and discharge to watercourse. Not sure what is preferred by EA in England. I think part of the problem is these people who in the past have said things along the lines of "the discharge from a STP is so clean you could drink it; although I wouldn't personally hahaha". Well, it isn't that clean, which is why in sensitive areas tertiary treatment is required. Not only that, but when when the system fails? Or the pump stops working unbeknown to the occupier? Or you are away for periods of time and the biological activity stops? Or you have it installed/emptied and it takes xx weeks for the microbes to repopulate? Etc etc. So you raise some good points imo. I'd stab a guess at the fact that the above scenarios are all likely and common, especially with folks who don't like to get too involved with things like this. In fact, I was speaking to someone the other day who said he went to do a job and asked the customer why his STP wasn't making any noise? The customer said it never made noise. Turns out the air blower hadn't been working at all for 2 years+. I imagine ignorance is bliss for a lot of people when it comes to sewerage. What you can't do now is have a septic tank (new or existing) discharging to a watercourse. Thanks to everyone for the responses. When we were looking for a house to buy we certainly came across many where the septic tanks had not been emptied for an age. Some were 30 years+. Some were NEVER emptied. Personally, and for my low usage, I think I'll go for once every five years or so. One of the reasons for this is to inspect for damage to the inside of the tank and/or internal pipe work. On top of that, depending on ow low the pipes are on the T and H pieces, they could be in the sludge area rather than the effluent area if left for a lot of years, which in the end will lessen the life of the drainage field. Probably what I've learnt most from all this is the importance of protecting the drainage field. The tank will kind of look after itself if you're sensible with it. Cheers

Hi all Following on from this thread.... ...things have changed and new questions have arisen, so I thought it best to start a new one. Firstly, I can't quite remember what inspired it, but we decided to do another percolation test in a different area of the garden and the results were fantastic. Pretty much perfect for a drainage field. So we're going to do a third test later next week after there's been some rain. But things are looking good and if they continue to do so then we're sticking with the septic tank. Lesson learnt RE doing more than one test. I'm thinking that the first one was done in an area of high compaction and/or where spoil may have been laid when extensions were built (not by us). Secondly, for the reasons listed in the other thread I'm still keen on installing a compost loo in the house. We will keep a flushing loo as well for occasional use and guests who can't get their heads round pooing in a bucket. But guests are rather occasional here. So I'm wondering - does a septic tank need poo to function and if so how much does it need? If for arguments sake the tank only ever received discharge from sinks, showers, washing machine and dishwasher - what would happen? Would the microbes all die/become dormant? If so, then what? Not the nicest topic, but appreciate anyone's thoughts nonetheless Cheers

That's the option I'm going with - and that's for IN the house permanently. I'm a convert! If you - or anyone else reading - are interested in the Humanure approach, I do believe the book is available as a free PDF download too; although donations are welcomed...

Hi all We're getting quotes for some repair work to our concrete septic tanks. One chap has said that to do the work he would remove the concrete biscuit covers from both tanks, rather than actually get into the tank. But I've heard elsewhere that once removed the lids never go back on properly. Has anyone any experience or views on this? If it is ok to remove them, when replaced should they just be sat back on top, or should some mortar or similar be used? Many thanks

What type of soil do you have? And have you any idea how high the water table is in winter and/or after heavy prolonged rain (aka summer)?

To my credit, I had to look that one up.

I'm pretty sure shower and bath water is classed as grey... Where have you read it is classed as black? It's actually a renovation (of sorts - the house is habitable, just needs a fair bit of work) , not a new build. Even so, there's a loo on each floor. As for motivation, a bit of both I guess. But greener does play a big part. If - for arguments sake - we could have a composting / recycling type of set up and it cost the same as installing a new STP with discharge to the stream, I'd favour the former over the latter. Thanks for the replies

Thanks ProDave, I appreciate what you're saying. And it is indeed what I will most likely be going for. But before taking the plunge that route, I want to explore any possible ways of incorporating a greener approach into the house. It's looking unlikely. But I don't want to be in a position where months / years and £10k later I hear about some other greener recycling system I wish I'd known about before having made the decision. Like I say, I'm happy with what I need to look out for if getting a STP and discharging to the stream. I'm just having a little side way glance towards composting/recycling/greener options... Ta

In case it goes wrong!

PS - the only feasible non-powered option for us is the ClearFox, but they've left me wondering why they only give a measly 2 year warranty. Hardly displays a faith in their product, imo.

Thank you for the replies. Some of those threads I've already read umpteen times; they're what made me sign up actually Others I have not seen at all, so thanks for the heads up. I'm quite confident on what to look out for when it comes to the STP. But composting loos and waste recycling are all new to me so I'm totally green (brown?) on that. After mulling it over in my sleep, I think it's all going to be a non-starter unfortunately. I will continue to read up on the subject though, in case there are solutions I'm missing. But as I see it, with very poor percolating ground, the grey and black water needs to be treated, and most likely a STP is the only option for that. Ironically, the STP needs the poo to survive so it would have to go there anyway; not that I would be able to afford a STP, a discharge to stream, AND composting toilets anyhow. So I guess the crux comes back to whether there's an alternative allowable method of dealing with the grey and black water only. I don't know if reed beds are sufficient as a front end? And/or whether they are feasible on poor percolating ground. Likewise some of the tertiary treatment units... It's frustrating. I always liked the idea of an outdoor shack composting loo that we could at least use some of the time. But once a STP is introduced that won't even be on the menu because the plant will be calling for our poo and sulking if it doesn't get it!

Hi all We've got problems with our sewerage and need to get something sorted promptly! I've been reading about sewage treatment plants this last week or two so that I can choose what will best suit our needs when we replace our existing septic tank in the next month or two. At the same time, in the back of my mind I have been thinking about composting options, but I really don't know anything about them. The house is plumbed in, but the bathroom needs redoing completely (including new toilet), as does the kitchen sink unit. I've been watching a few videos and reading a few web pages, but most of what I'm finding discusses the ins and outs of the compost loo, but not what options there are for dealing with the the grey and black water. I wondered if anyone in the know would be able to explain what options are available out there? To help, here's some info: - We're on heavy clay soil, with very poor percolation - We have a stream in the garden - We currently have a concrete septic tank (two cylindrical chambers) - I'm not at all squeamish and happy to deal with these sorts of things - I like to recycle and compost as much as possible. Even with full plumbing I often choose to pee in bottles so I can use it in the garden as fertiliser, weedkiller, etc. - We have a bathroom upstairs, a WC downstairs, and a kitchen which will have a washing machine and dishwasher. They're all at one end of the house and so quite close together. So what options might we have available? And aside from the practical possibilities, where does this sort of stuff sit with building control and EA (or NRW in my case)? Appreciate any thoughts. Many thanks

Thanks for the info derek. It's a funny business this sewerage business! That's not the first time I've come to learn that a plant sold by one company is actually made by another and re-badged. Plus there are so many claims that this is best, and everything else is rubbish, because of this, that and the other. And then, to top it all off, there's this guy who seems almost like some dodgy sewerage evangelist! :- https://www.septictank.co.uk/tv/ with all kinds of claims which to my understanding are totally inaccurate. Sorry to hear about your bad experiences. I have had a couple of emails with James Webb and he has been very helpful. I've not bought anything yet though. Looking at the other thread you have written on, I note you've bought twice from WTE, and two different units at that?

Hi @derek Thanks for your message. Just to clarify though, I think WTE make the Apex/Falcon, not Clenviro. Clenviro only make the Matrix. Is that what you meant? If not, what makes you say Clenviro make the Apex and Falcon? I'll reply to your other points a little later... Now off to have dinner in my humid kitchen! (Didn't do any testing comparisons of humidity today as it's been peeing down all day!) Ta

My partner's at work tomorrow, and I don't cook I'll stick the kettle in another room and then see how things look after a few hours. I'm presuming humidity from cooking and kettles doesn't hang around for too long... Or does it? Temperature-wise it was around 22-23c when I was taking those readings. And the RH outside was bang somewhere in between at 75% (whilst at the same time the dining room was 85% and the cowshed around mid 60s). Cheers

I've certainly heard very good things about it, including from experienced installers. And the rep I've been talking to (the customer service all round for that matter) has been exceptional. It's just all those bolts that put me off. I keep thinking IKEA! To be fair to them though, they offer better warranty than most.

@Thedreamer Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've seen enough now to strike the Tricel off my shortlist!

So that just leaves.... Deal. Yep. I'm happy to blame her

How could you possibly blame her??

She puts out the most. And it ain't on account of tea/coffee drinking

I just popped the hygrometer outside for interest's sake.... 75% outside. 85% inside (dining room). I guess cutting down on tea and coffee in the adjoining kitchen might help

There certainly is a lot to consider! And to be honest, I only came here to say hi, I didn't mean for this chat to ensue. Not that I'm complaining No, there's no damp course for the walls. But the concrete slab floor has a DPM beneath. By all accounts that's a bad thing as it sends the moisture to the walls, rather than having a breathing floor. When it comes to tackling that, I'll certainly be back with more in-depth info in a quest for help and advice... Internally, the walls have been painted with a modern paint from what I can tell. Mostly. There is a small section that has been plastered. Externally... The front - I think - is limewashed. The gable end is unfinished, but was repointed with cement mortar instead of lime. The back is unfinished too. Not sure what the pointing on there is... One thing of interest whilst on this subject. (which I'll no doubt repeat in months to come when we actually tackle the room), the house is on a slopping plot front to back. So at the front, I'd guess the internal floor level is quite similar to the external ground. But at the back, the internal floor level is probably around a metre or so higher than the outside ground. I don't know much about buildings, but I have been wondering whether this "one-metre-beneath-internal-floor-level-external wall" somehow helps let the earth beneath the concrete slab breath. In terms of "High humidity might be linked to these issues"... Perhaps. But still interesting as to why the RH is 20% lower than in the room that was built to modern regs!

Interestingly, we like open windows a lot, but the humidity tends to go up when we open them. I'll check out the PIV loft fan, thanks I should add that these are extremes, on account of the extreme muggy weather we've been having...

The cowshed has solid walls (stone). 550-600mm thick. The dining room extension is cavity walls block inside and stone outside. There's also a large picture window (around 2m square) and sliding patio doors. Plus it's open plan to the 1970s kitchen, which is cavity wall, possibly brick and block but not certain (rendered externally).

It's strange. I'm hoping one day I'll get to the bottom of why this is the case...