ToughButterCup

Some of you will be aware of this thread. It itemises a series of errors on my part. The wet-fish slap in my face was provided by @mvincentd. For which I am sincerely grateful. Cutting through the clutter of a five page thread and seeing the core of the problem is not easy. Thanks @mvincentd. POSIs ordered were 100mm or less too short. The thread explains how I made the error. It shows quite how much support you can muster on BH by making one simple post. At one stage I was resigned to re-ordering a new set and hawking the old set of POSIs on eBay. Many technically savvy people pitched in: it became very obvious how much experience is packed into this little Discussion Group. Technical resolutions to the problem were offered and, truth to be told, I didn't take much notice of them. Thats the problem with my German extraction: your instinct is to do it right or not at all. Perhaps because I'm old, with the supplier, I tried to apply the conflict resolution techniques I taught for so many years. I say tried because its a damn sight easier teaching others how to do it than to apply it to yourself. And, slowly the possibility of a technical solution became clearer in my disappointed brain. So this thread is about looking forward to a sensible way of solving this little problem. A series of people @PeterStarck , @scottishjohn, @joe90, @Russell griffiths, @Nickfromwales all supported the idea of lengthening the body of the joist. And when @JSHarris pitches in and supports those saying that I ought to consider the idea, I did what I should have done ages before. Picked up the phone. Steve Grice of Cheshire Roof Trusses has been dealing with my orders for joists. He's patient. Has to be.? He suggested he talk to Cullens the hanger manufacturer. And a certain Nicola Small came up with this idea In the way of things on BH, one idea - fifty opinions. Most pointed to the issue of unsupported top and bottom chords. Anyway, I read through them all and had a chat with Steve Grice (manufacturer) this morning. He agreed to talk to Nicola (Cullens, hanger manufacturer) to see if we could pack out the top and bottom chords. (The area immediately above and below the purple-shaded area above) Cant say I hadn't heard the exact same idea from @joe90 . Why he even supplied a diagram. Hey Joe! Did Nicola ring up yesterday and ask you ? ?

Yes See this post earlier in the thread ('... This isn't easy...')

See above.... Oim an appier man than I wuz yesdee

No need. I'm grateful for small Murphies at the moment

Weeeeeeeeeeelllll now: just heard back from the manufacturers. Cullens (the joist hanger chaps) have come up with this approved solution, have a look What do you all think? What sort of timber should I use? Treated C24? Ian

Oh Lord: you could do without this nonsense. All I can do is offer best wishes........

Mmmm hmm. Bit low tech innit?

Too late mate. They're sneering at me from the wall. Still, now John has brought us back to the OP, how would any of you experienced people transfer a mark from one wall-plate 90 degrees to the wall-plate on the opposite wall?

Erm, yer talking to me. Not someone who would knowingly, willingly move a joist without a big fuss and a lot of overthought.

Hmm, and I'll have to have my SDS to hand because - being an anal German (Vorsprung Durch Technik, Heil Himmler) I drilled the concrete 5mm deeper than needed. 'Cos zats fot I voz told to do.

I thought you'd disappeared into wedded bliss, son. Next time? Next time ? Va te faire enquiquiner chez les Greques. (Tr. Vulg. Go and let yourself be seen to by a Greek man. Common affectionate French insult)

? This is going from worse to getting better

No, I was thinking of the counter-sinking thing. Doesn't that weaken the wall-plate?

Honest? I mean really big fat smelly honest?

I can't say I wasn't warned........ Our wall-plates are up (and seem to be still there: surprised eh?). But, since we used Durisol blocks we had to make sure that the Thunderbolts Bolts are embedded in concrete. Not the wooden jacket which wraps the concrete. Tickety boo thus far. Staggered and roughly at 600 centers, concrete and rebar allowing. While waiting for my little local difficulty to be sorted out, I thought I'd lay out the joists at 400 mm centers just like the big man told me. Yep, you guessed it, occasionally the Thunderbolts get in the sodding way. And if they don't get in the way on one side , they will on the other. So common sense says move the mark to avoid the bolt and match the move on the other wall-plate. How on earth do I make sure the mark on the opposite wall is at right angles to the first mark? Measure? Do me a favour, the bloody place is as square as a jelly Buy another laser? Yeah yeah, yeah! Oh, hold on I need to buy more joists.. Damn.

The point made by the BCO is also important. Since POSI joists are engineered, and there are no guidelines similar to those operating for timber (only) joists - the TRADA Guidelines, then he has no guidance to follow. (See earlier post). Why a problem this time, and not last? They are different products, and different designs. One (the first), top hung (on top of the wall-plate) Easy Joists. The second is joist hanger hung, fitted between wall-plates, not on top of them. I didn't do enough research into the difference between the two If .... if.... if . If I can't take a joke, then I shouldn't have started.

Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate your support and kindness. I really don't know what I (we) would have done without it. Especially thanks to @mvincentd for cutting through the haze and telling it like it is. I will be talking today to the manufacturers and let's hope something can come of it. I must say the manufacturer has been very professional. Cheshire Roof Trusses. (Robinson Manufacturing) Let's hope @PeterStarck that they can come up with something.

This isn't easy. I'll just have to suck this one up. Psst! Need some lovely POSI joists? Never used, mint condition, always stored in the dry Ian

My tape is now firmly zipped into my left hand pocket: nothing else ever gets put there. And it gets put back there every time. (well almost) Course, it's been through the washer now and again....

Thanks that's interesting. Encouraging. I'll try again tomorrow and see what happens. This game has a super steep learning curve doesn't it?

Yes. And neither am I.

The question this time round is: In the light of the evidence presented, is it reasonable, yes or no, to argue the supplier should re-supply?

Just a quick list for ya...... PP delay 6 months: permission given but ecologist forgot to tell me he had an email allowing us to start (another 2 months) GCN license conditions 6 months delay Contractor buggered off for 5 weeks without telling us: wall blew down 9 to 12 months delay contractor buggered off multiple times at least a month at a time steels contractor got the measurements wrong 2 months delay architect - induced delay 1 month (all came down to the difference between max. and min. - copy and paste error on BR submission) Like I say at the beginning of this thread: Can't take a joke? Don't start.

No, they are hanger-hung (to coin a phrase). Had they been top-chord hung, there'd be no argument. It'd have had to be 3646 + 100 (50 either side)

Thats my point. The same approach and instruction resulted in two different outcomes.