SilverShadow

Hey Dave - what do you think the mini piling figures should be? And do you think the others seem fairly accurate?

I have seen this approximate guide - not entirely sure, but i think the sidewall is probably 7m long, so likely to be around £15k for 1 wall.... Although saying that, at £1200/m2, kinda implies they will go 1-2m further than the wall itself? (it's the only way i can fathom £10.8k for a 5m wall 🤔)

Thanks again guys for your insightful advice To summise - as the house is a 1930's semi detached with shallow foundations on a hill in a clay-soil area, it is likely to be suffering from seasonal swell/shrinkage of the soil. The main issues of concern are adjacent to broken waste/rainwater drains running along the side of the house (perhaps this is causing 'heave' in the clay and actually lifting the house rather than erosion?) The SE report indicated the house is structurally sound, and that the foundation cracking/concerns are likely to be a mixture of thermal movement, settlement, and the broken drains leaking water in the surrounding ground Last evening, i read an article with concerns about the effectiveness of using resin injection on clay with shallow foundations, so it does sound like it is an unsuitable remedy. Likewise the BBA published a paper outlining how resin injection can be suitably used on reactive soils like clay (so i'd expect their opinion to have some gravitas). So it seems there are contradicting verdicts So it seems like resin injection may work on clay soils or shallow foundations, but the question i have is 'will it work on both clay AND shallow foundations?' I guess i'll need a SE to analyse the problem, so we can glean advice on the method of underpinning suitable. If we owned the house it'd be different, but as we're buying one i not sure we have the time/money/inclination to do this Thanks again for all your help, and do please add more if you can find any insightful info around resin injection (pros & cons, relating to shallow foundations / reactive soil) Mark industry-voice-treatment-of-clay-shrinkage-via-non-disruptive-expansive-geopolymer-injection-final2.pdf

Thanks for sharing your experience, MarkC - i'm not sure, but definitely something i need to consider. As regards lifespan, from what i gather these resins are guaranteed for 10-20years (depending on manufacturer), and read somewhere they last around 100 years (stability tested up to 60 years). ......according to their blurb, of course!

Thanks guys - enough food for thought to give me indigestion! All comments are highly valued, and i hope me challenging your opinions is not perceived as undervaluing your experience. I probably haven't articulated my question very well earlier, so it may have come across as 'bias'. What i was really after is: "why not to choose geopolymer/resin injection, based on others experience/knowledge of using it" rather than "Why traditional underpinning is option to choose" Apologies for not making myself clearer earlier....

Good question, and i'm only basing on my understanding (though i could probably apply for a salesman job at this rate! 😅) The resin is injected into the ground at high pressure - this seeks out the gaps/fissures in the soil voids and fills up. Once in there the resin expands, effectively lifting the base of the house close to it's original level, and sets solid in a matter of hours. The whole process is meant to take a few days, and by all accounts has been used on a number of commercial applications (motorways, airports, railways, commercial building, judging by their testimonials), and i would imagine in those cases some of those may have unstable ground with minimal foundations. Once raised 'the theory is' the cracks have reduced, but will still need repairing, just like i'd imagine they would with concrete underpinning? 🤷‍♂️ As i understand, it's well known that concrete underpinning is more expensive, takes longer, more intrusive & can carry a 'resale' stigma according to mortgage providers/estate agents. Apologies guys - i am probably too hung up on this structural option. If it is unfeasible we simply won't purchase the property

Thanks guys - it is great to gather a consensus of opinions....😉 May i ask, for those with reservations about geopolymer/resin injection, is there anything substantial to base your hesitancy on please? It's not that i doubt per se, but would like to know how a multinational company like this can operate successfully for so many years, if their product is essentially inferior? When i've read several independent articles they all mention this technique as a viable/cheaper alternative to underpinning, so i must be missing something fundamental in terms of why it is a non-starter.... Is there a fundamental flaw in my understanding, or are folks reservations based on it being a relative unknown? 🤔 Apologies for labouring the point - it is the preferred method we'd like to adopt (if we buy the property at all), so wanted to really get into understanding the reasons why this is so unsuitable Thanks all Mark

Thanks again for your input all 😀 I would perhaps hazard a guess that some folks may not have come across this groundwork technique before, and so rightly cautious as to its suitability? If we go ahead with the purchase I think it'll be the method of choice, as I'd much rather it than digging under the house while propping it up 😬 Many thanks for your time - please feel free to contribute further, as I will keep an eye on the thread a while longer Huge thanks Mark Ps - i'm interested in hearing from anyone who has experienced using geoploymers on their property or commercial buildings, to gather their thoughts

Our concern is that asking for £75k off, the buyer would probably just go via 'We buy any house'? 🤔 We agreed the price in Aug/Sept, while the market was more buoyant, so thought £37k seemed reasonable, although in hindsight it is probably expensive now (although prices in that area are holding up and typically £40-60k more, for what seem to be houses in better repair). The vendor is keen for a quick sale, due to financial concerns (house unoccupied & paying rent till the sale goes through to provide money for their new house), and so won't spend months trying to have this sorted We have our mortgage secured, as it is small enough to not matter (we have informed them of the potential for this work). Our insurance may well be a concern (we may have to get insurance that doesn't cover subsidence, or pay a premium to include this). Our basis that this resin injection seems to tick the boxes for main concerns regarding resale/insurance, etc (as per bottom of this weblink): https://www.geobear.co.uk/subsidence-repair/ Although that of course doesn't take cost into account. It is my theory that the house is still undergoing movement - perhaps it is the factor of 'taking in more on a second viewing', but i believe some cracks are still opening (there was a 2 month gap between viewings) We love the house & the locality, but the structural aspects & vendor are our main reason for hesitancy. Looking on Rightmove, we know we wouldn't find anything as good in that location for that price Seems like most folks would give this a wide berth, which is probably what we'd have already done, if it weren't for the our love of the property & its situation. Eternally grateful for all your thoughts

Many thanks again. The vendor did get their insurers to hire a SE company to perform a report, based on a visit. Their report highlighted the following: External: The cracks observed appear to be due to thermal movement, settlement of foundations and potentially defective underground drainage. Kitchen/Bathroom floors (bathroom is above the kitchen): The sloping and uneven floors appears to be due to historic and/or active settlement and timber creep General: The property appears to be structurally stable but is in below average condition Underpinning, Geobear or similar works will be required, if cracks re-appear after helical bar installation. A CCTV is recommended to check the condition of the underground drainage system Sloping/uneven floors can be removed and replaced once any cause of drainage failure/subsidence has been rectified The drain CCTV did identify places where the clay pipes had moved to expose a few clear gaps for water to leech into the soil, so we envisage this will be a main factor, though have no expertise as to how much a leaking drain would feasibly create holes big enough for the foundations to sink. Overall, our budget for shoring up the foundations is around £15-30k(ish), which we'd hope would cover most if not all of the rework along various points of the 8m house sidewall. Our surveyor costed £17k on other items identified in the survey, and as mentioned we've also allocated up to £33k for structural rework, but overall wary of whether a repair budget of £35-50k would typically cover enough to make it viable. We are very much on the fence with the house - it's not a ramshackled heap of bricks by any means & we're not afraid to find problems, but also quite aware it hasn't been 'loved' for many years & appreciate it might need lots of work in several key areas

Thanks again guys - all very invaluable I feel with Geobear, they are only just coming onto the radar of doing residential properties (normally it is large scale projects). I think many do not recommend them, as they are not well known. But we picked up on it when the vendors SE report mentioned them as an alternative to traditional underpinning (which we are keen to avoid, due to the stigma it carries for buyers). We are hoping the house will hold value though, as subsidence in that region is not mainstream yet not unheard of either However, i think the idea of a SE to either give initial analysis / review and sign off the ground resin/underpinning seems like sound advice. There are long cracks in probably half the rooms in the house (some the length of the ceiling, but most only 1mm or so wide), which i'm convinced are the result of the foundations, rather the roof bowing Here's a bit more of an idea of the cracking we see inside (and we also noted the front upvc door is 'sticking' - another sure sign of subsidence). This pic shows one of the worst plaster surface, and most cracks are around 2mm wide (some slightly smaller, some wider). I've left one encircles in A, so you an see them 1st hand PS - does anyone have any good SE recommendations around East Mids, or know where i can find some (perhaps there is somewhere on here....🤔)

Hey guys - many thanks for your sage suggestions 😁 To clarify a little further - we do envisage this to be a 'do-er upper' project, as it'll hopefully be our forever house. We've negotiated £37k off the original price (and have a total budget of £50k), so hopefully should have enough in reserve to address the main issues. Our survey highlighted around £17k of things to remedy, and we managed a further £20k off, to cover the structural side. The survey report was 100 pages, and although this has the making of a 'money pit' has hopefully identified the lions share of fundamental aspects We opted for the mantra of 'buy the worst house in the best street', as we feel it's the best way to get our dream house for the right price (in the long run) I perhaps described the sewer incorrectly - it is a private (100mm pipe?) drain for waste (sink, toilet, etc), rather than shared, and old clay pipes almost 100 years old. The house is a 1930's 2 storey semi, and most likely has shallower shale foundations, which on a hill is potentially why we see these structural issues. It also explains why there are 4 or 4 failures along a 6 meter strip along the house. The brickwork cracks are about 4 or 5 ft, as shown in the pic below - we are hoping resin injection will help close this and then repoint/helibar to resolve the problem Regarding Geobear - i'm a little surprised more people haven't used a company like this. They seem fairly legit (have good reviews on Trustpilot) & are a multi-national company running for 40 years that undertake many industry/commercial projects (airports, trainlines, etc), so i'd expect the product to be up to the job. The product is designed to last 100 yrs, and guaranteed for 10yrs. We may opt for a private SE to oversee this, but they seem to imply they will take care of everything their side, so wasn't sure if it was extra unnecessary cost. We also weren't sure what we'd need in terms of sign off/assurance to ensure all regs are compliant and we have no insurance/resale issues (should we later move) Out of interest, can anyone recommend a good SE around the East Midlands, and what sort of rate £/day would we expect if we opt to employ one while the work is undertaken? Many thanks again - happy to post more if folks wish Mark

Hi there, My 1st post on the forum, and hoping you guys can help with our quandary please 🙂 My partner and i are looking to purchase a house, and our lvl 3 RICS survey has highlighted the potential for needing structural rework (sloping floors, cracking in interior plaster, some vertical mortar cracks in brickwork). From the checks we've had (Struc Engineer report & drain survey), it seems as though the waste sewer running alongside the house has failed in several areas, though there might also be some ground movement (can't yet tell if the subsidence is from soil erosion from drains, or ground, or both). Obviously we'd get a more detailed structural analysis if we proceed, but wanted to gather a few initial thoughts from anyone in the know. Our questions are around the following: 1) I've read that resin injection with geopolymers can be a cheap & effective alternative to underpinning - just wondering if anyone had used this & what their thoughts were (we're thinking of using Geobear, unless anyone can recommend a better UK company)? Have heard it's around £1200/metre.... 2) When using something like this, are there any implications if we decide to build a house extension over/around that area at a later date? 3) I've read that house structural rework can cause problems with insurance & resale value. Apparently, resin injection avoids this, as it doesn't 'break the ground', hence no need to declare it. Does anyone know more about this claim of avoiding the insurance/resale issue? 4) Does anyone know what is classed as 'structural repair' that may affect the house value/insurance? Eg, if we use helibars to repair the brick mortar cracks will this need to be declared or just part of the normal process of house repair? 5) Any other advice/tips/gotchya's from anyone who's experienced similar when fixing their property Many thanks for you help - totally appreciated Mark