SilverShadow

Cheers, Gus - those documents are excellent!! Really informative & clear. From what i can tell, the 2 main factors to consider in the design are: Orientation - avoiding a 'terraced' effect with other properties & being overly imposing Daylight & Sunlight - ensuring the proposal has no impact deemed significant enough for loss of light I've considered it as follows, for our side extension: Orientation: Our house is set back approx 2m from the neightbours There is a 3m gap between buildings The neighbours house is 1-2m naturally higher than ours Their roof is gable end, ours is sloped Our extension is 1m from the boundary line (neighbours building is 2m from theirs), making the 3m gap mentioned above Our side 2 storey extension 1st floor guttering is likely to be about mid-point between their ground floor and 1st floor rear windows Neither property has windows overlooking the boundary, nor will the extension There are a reasonable number of existing 2 storey side extensions in the neighbourhood, where they have built flush with the house front, and closer to their adjacent house, and in some cases not subservient in terms of profile or roof height (we'd add more details of the properties at submission time) It's likely we'd apply for party wall agreement, due to being only 1m from the boundary line Daylight & sunlight: Neither property has side windows, so the 25' rule shouldn't apply The 45' rule (horizontally from their kitchen window) - i can see by eye, that we currently don't cross this line with the existing garage, so wouldn;t anticipate the 1st floor extension to either The 45' rule (vertically from kitchen window - i wasn't aware of this until now!). It's unlikely we'd cross this from our 1st floor guttering level, but it would be within a meter i'd imagine Pitched roof - as ours will be a pitched roof, then it seems like we take the 45' vertical rule from the midpoint, in which case we'd definitely be fine. Is this pitched roof midpoint interpretation correct? Sunlight - both houses rear gardens are Southern facing (South-East, to be precise, so there might be some shadows cast early morning on their front lawn, side of house early afternoon & maybe the rear late evening/sunset As the roof is sloping and 1st floor halfway between their ground floor and 1st floor window, the amount of shadow is far less than it would be on even ground. The shadows would likely hit the side of their house (with no windows) likely no more than halfway up. There are a number of mature trees on the road that could obscure their property from sunlight, regardless of our extension, so hopefully we won't be causing any major impact We don't believe a VSC would be required, given the above All the above is only a high level appraisal, and would need more accurate measurements and assessments. But we feel this is a good starting point for our case This is a crude drawing of the proposed side extension (in orange). The footprint remains unchanged to the existing one, except for moving the front edge forwards 3/4m, in line with the existing front This is not to ask whether you consider the proposal would be successful, but more to enquire if there are other things we should consider when designing & applying......

Thanks again, NFW 😁 Several architects have advised us, but it really seems like a mixed bag. Some we've spoken to err on the side of caution, and would produce a 'safe' design. Others seem a little more open to interpretation of the rules, and think that in our case we might attempt trying to maximise our footprint, due to the orientation of ours & the neighbours house Obviously no-one knows till it goes for submission, & we don't expect any cast iron guarantees. But this (for us) is where we really want their gut feeling & experience to shine through . This is where we feel they can really provide their worth. From what some have said, if the council rejects & asks for a wall to be moved slightly to comply, it can be classed as a minor revision & part of the original proposal. Thus incur no extra fees or restart the process. Is anyone able to verify if this assumption is correct?

Many thanks, SAS I have no clear insight into how they'll react. But they have recently gone very quiet after the initial positive dialogue we had. I can't be certain whether they're just waiting to see the plans or have some fundamental concerns, but think IF they do object it'll be possibly be due to Loss of Light. Hopefully though, it'll be fairly minimal, due to the building orientation and the gardens being south-facing, so the sun won't hopefully overshadow their property too badly (aside from the side of their house, which has no windows). We'll just have to see i guess - but if we can find some online service to check light/overshadowing that would be extremely helpful We've also found a service that does a 'Pre-Application' planning appraisal (for £100+VAT), that will take the basic extension requirements and assess the likelihood of PP success the the local Planning Authority (based on previous applications in the area). I'm not sure if this is just gimicky, but this sounds like a valuable service, to increase (not guarantee) the likelihood of PP approval

Cheers, NFW - tbh, i like the sound of Planning By Design, as they seem to offer services throughout the whole process. Arguably, an online service perhaps doesn't have the ability to see things 'on site'. But we've struggled with getting local architects on board (a lack of engagement, when we've tried to contact them). With a larger company like this, the service is likely to be less-bespoke - but at least we're likely to always have someone to hand! While cost is a factor, having a team there every step of the way is equally vital (especially, as we think getting PP approval from 1 of our neighbours might be tricky). I have noticed a number of side extensions in our area that don't appear 'subservient' to the main building (ie - they are flush with front elevation & in some cases roof continues at the same height). Seems like council rules are 'malleable', if you know how....🤔

For anyone still keeping tabs on this thread (and i wouldn't blame anyone for not doing so! 😆) Has anyone had experience of using some of these big name architect companies, like: Arkiplan Homz Planning by design They seem to be more of an online service, but appear to have a wealth of services to offer & can provide a comprehensive 'all in 1' package for several £k cheaper than others we've had quotes from. We definitely won't skimp unnecessarily at this step of the process, but likewise would be happy to try these companies if folks have had positive experiences with them For the record: we are still hoping to use a local architect if possible, but been let down recently & so exploring all options to try and push ahead Cheers, all Shadow

On another front, one of the architects replied to me, stating his party wall surveyor friend says that it's 'an unwritten rule' that exploratory pits generally don't require a PWA in place I've no reason to doubt him, but couldn't find anything around this. I definitely won't be rushing into anything, as its likely he's not privy to their potential location They would be within 1m of the boundary & approx 3.3m of the adjacent house

Many thanks guys- very valuable stuff indeed 😁 Agree with the comments above & have reached out to the neighbour (landlord) about the desire to renovate, who was happy to send via email Within the email I contained a couple of rough 'before' & 'after sketches', together with bullet points of the work & rough guesstimate start date. I stressed that this is at the very early 'vision' stage, so likely details would change as things progress. I made sure to explicitly state we want them on board at an early stage, to gather feedback & concerns. I also mentioned we would likely need to dig exploratory pit(s) and mentioned PWA, together with a link to a website around Party Wall info. The opportunity for them to formally review plans via communication from the council was also something I stated We've since discovered their father is an Architect, so I imagine they will appreciate the heads up & work required in the proposal. With luck, it may work to our favour, in terms of understanding process & the need for some of the tasks to be done

Brilliant stuff - many thanks! We are planning on contacting the neighbour next week, and sending an email detailing our proposal and rough start date. If email is acceptable then this will be an amazing cost saving to our project. The neighbour has tenants in the house, which i believe also need to give consent? Either way, if we can get this sorted next week, then we could start exploratory holes early/min Jan (as i think we need 2 months notice before commencing).

Yeah, we're hoping the existing foundations are >1m, so we don't have to mess about with it. Thought as we're planning a 2 storey extension we'd need to be absolutely sure

Great advice! Tbh, we were pretty much sold on contacting them regardless - so i think we'd rather stay on good terms and keep everything above-board. I should have mentioned to take those measurements with a pinch of salt - it's definitely 3m at least, but that's an irrelevancy if we're informing them anyway For their agreement, would you say something via email would suffice? And just to remove all doubt - if they agree via email we'd probably not need an official Party Wall Agreement doc?

Yeah, i suspect you may be right. There is a rule about drawing a 45' line from the base of the neighbours foundation (where 3-6m from neighbours house), and if your digging/foundations do not cross this line then you don't need it. However, the crux of this is knowing how deep their foundations go, and i think some just take the 45' line from the ground surface to be on the safe side. I'm not 100% sure on that last bit though

Indeed - they will be privy to these, as part of the formal PP process. However, we wanted to try and do the exploratory foundation holes asap, so we can determine the existing floor suitability & get a party wall agreement in asap

Hey all, Thought i'd quickly ask you guys for your thoughts on the following please.... When digging 2 foundation exploratory holes (to check existing foundation depth) near our boundary, is a formal party wall agreement need to be in place, prior to excavation? The holes will be 50cm x 50cm, to check the depth of our garage foundations (so possibly be 1m deep or more). These would be within 1m of the neightbours boundary wall, and their land is 1m higher than ours. We want to keep on good terms with the landlord/tenants next door, so would notify them anyway. I just wanted to check whether we'd definitely need a party wall agreement in place prior to digging the exploratory holes, and whether it should be a formal document prior to commencing? (i suspect we will need this, but wanted to check my understanding is correct)

Either way, feels more like a game of chess: trying to outfox the other, which is simply insane....

Thanks guys - mighty helpful!! I think my local council prefer the extension to be set back (subservient), but other local builders i've spoken to say 'no probs' with bringing it level. Indeed, there is a mix of both where i live, so perhaps they have changed their stance over time? Personally, i feel bringing it forward would allow the roofline to flow better (and potentially make the rafter design a little easier....) I think a ring to the planning dept might be the best course of action - hopefully they give something more definitive than 'read the planning guidelines', because i always find that has more room for misinterpretation. One architect i spoke to with came up with a novel plan: extend the porch lower-roofline across the whole of the front profile and over the garage. That way you can probably bring the garage forward without much objection. Perhaps he knows something others don't..... 🤔

Hey all, Big thanks to all you helpful bods that have advised me in the past, and hopefully it continues into this thread Let me firstly say that we're only at the very early preliminary stage, and only just contacting professionals/trades people at this point..... What we propose is a 2 storey house side-extension (above the garage and into the back of the garage). Purely for aesthetics, i'd like the front of the garage & extension above to be flush with the bay window wall (and tooth-in). The extension would be in-keeping with existing materials, build with similar look/materials & pitched roof) However, i've heard there may be some hurdles from PP with this...? 1) Does anyone know of rules around where side-extension street facing profiles & where they have to be? I've seen some side-extensions in my road that are flush and other recessed back, so it seems like it WAS possible at some point (maybe isn't anymore?) 2) Likewise, has anyone come across problems with pitched roof height rules? (i can imagine there being several standard solutions to allow a pitched roof to extend) 3) If anyone has encountered these problems - what was your experience, and any tips or advice you can share? 4) Perhaps this is also a scurrilous rumour (i intend to ring our local council PP dept anyway), but allegedly failed PP's may require another application fee for each re-submission? Sounds improbable, but not impossible! Thanks guys - i'm, purely on a fact-finding mission with this, to arm myself with info before considering next steps In your debt Shadow

Thanks again for the wide array of responses guys - it's obviously a hugely evocative subject 😅 Apologies again, if this has stirred up ill feelings A few more questions, if you guys would indulge further..... Our architect has stated that revisions are included in the quote (a full redraw would naturally cost extra though). For revisions: 1. Presumably, these can occur even after planning phase (ie: during construction phase), if the design changes for whatever reason? 2. Can anyone specify what is classed as a revision, or redraw - or is this best to clarify with the architect? (i'd assume revisions would be something reasonably minor, eg: not knocking down a partition wall/adding a downstairs 'under the stairs' loo, and redraw would be to start from scratch). It's that fine line where a change is so big it's no longer class as a revision, that's the most intriguing thing 3. If we decide not to do all the proposed work/ require slight changes, then do we need architects drawings updating to reflect this for BC to sign off/approve the build? (I guess it depends on what the deviation from plan is) Regardng bullet point 3: our plan is for the architect to design all our requirements, then likely scale back once costs are known. We were wondering if scaling back needs extra drawing revisions in order for BC to be happy...... Huge thanks as always chaps! Shadow

Another few dumb Q's please guys 🙃 1. We're assuming we want to specify our build budget up front to the architect, so he can design/spec accordingly. Would this seem like a sage approach? (I've heard some folks say keep quiet & see what the end result is, but that seems daft imo) 2. Is it typical an Architect's role is complete once design & structural drawings are done and everything signed off for construction to commence? If so then I guess we pay them 'per visit or hour' if we need theor help with builder/Bc disputes? 3. Would the architect reach out to builders to quote for the work? We assumed we'd do that, but it may be something they're happy to provide Sounds like we need a project Mgr for this. It's a modest extension of 3 new rooms, possibly to take 3-4 months (according to 1 builder) & just a reasonably basic build but to a good standard. We don't have loads of time/experience in this area, so hence the numerous q's to arm ourselves with as much info as possible 😉

I've certainly tried to avoid any disrespect. Merely here to learn & appreciate others insights The rough costs we understand. But the overall process/roles & responsibilities from design to completion are what I'm hoping to find out more I suspect it'll be in the subsequent posts to this one

I think £1000/m2 is a fantastic price, but very optimistic for us (given its a 2 storey extension with pitched roof) Obviously we won't know till the designs are done & builders quotes arrive. But even one of those rubbish £/m2 calculators suggested £1900/m2 I wouldn't trust that figure at all, but guesstimate it might be £2-2.5k/m2 (especially the higher end, if the old foundations are found to be lacking) We may consider being direct contact for BC during construction. But we've both got busy jobs & so little time for the to & fro messenger boy role between BC & the builder (especially if disputes occur between them)

Ps, the bit that confuses me is this 3rd party company. He rates them because many of them used to work for BC, so know the score. He suggested they will help keep the build on track & minimise delay. But if there's a problem with BC, I can't see how they mitigate delays & allow work to continue - ultimately BC decide what is acceptable & when it can be signed off?? I suspect its not to bog down his builder friend & keep focused on the task

Great advice The quote we got was just under £4k for drawings to both PP & BC. As far as I can tell, PP fees are around £600 & BC around £900. These are additional to his £4k quote He's also indicated approx £900 for the 3rd party company to deal with BC and a similar figure if we need a structural engineer (if we find out the foundations are a problem & need advice) So it sounds within the cost boundary you mentioned

Thanks for the heads up. The architect who visited gave some good ideas for room layout/access & front elevation appearance. He's offered to do minor revisions as part of the original cost (only a full redraw incurs charges) We're thinking to ask him to do the full plan with all his suggestions, & trim back if builders quotes/construction costs soar. He's quoted separately for plans to be submitted to the PP for layout & another quote for the construction diagrams for BC He's also suggested a 3rd party company to deal with building control during construction. I'm not 100% sure on this, but he's confident these guys help things run smoother

Hey all, Firstly let me say, this is not to bash architects (there seems to be some of that already! 😉), so im not here to decry their skills & service in any way... I'm here to ask a few fundamental Q's, please. So would be most grateful if anyone knows the following: Working with building control - as I understand, it's common place for them to be the linchpin in having each stage signed off till completion. But would you also expect them to mediate with the builder (as part of their standard fee), whenever challenges around cost, design or build materials/finish come up? I'm assuming they act as guardians of design & quality, so I'd expect them to push back if the builder tries to deviate from the plans... Also, has anyone known of using multiple architects in a project (eg, a fallout with the builder part way through construction, or 1 architect does the plan & another works with those plans till sign off)? I'm just curious as to how flexible architects are with using another's drawings or continuing where a previous one left off.... Apologies if these seek like dumb Q's, but I'm just furnishing myself with as much knowledge as possible 😀 Best regards Shadow

Thanks Adrian - always great to get a x-section of opinions, but also fab to know that's a viable alternative! 😀 One builder did use the word 'underpinning' when talking about the extension foundations, so perhaps he was referring to this as an option instead of relaying the foundations...