zoothorn

How could I ever know the 55* bit though? I only have the controller to change a digital number. I cant dangle my thingy in it. Pipes, insulated question: well I have been left with a bundle of grey lagging Ive no idea why- is a customer meant to fit this themselves? (plus two new high pressure flexi coil fridge pipes, again no idea why left by installers, not that these have relevance to pipe temp).

Ok, but if the water is made @55*, & as its a new system it's got to be near this figure if not bang on, goes along copper pipes across a smallish loft, down a floor into room.. & I measure down at the rad, how can I expect it to still be 55* though? it has to lose something, surely. Measure again today -RHS I assume the flow side as it's usually higher- in kitchen its 44* like yesterday's best temp. I think 8.20am is a good time to measure rads as just started 30mins ago (seem to idle as said from 6.30 to 7.50 or so, no heat produced) & 1st time up to speed is ~8am. 12.7*C kitchen & bathroom temps!

Should I have expected to read 55* then on the 'in' side of either of these two rads at any time? Bear in mind one rad -does- heat one room well: the workshop, & with a rad approx same size as kitchen's.. workshop approx 2x the size of kitchen.

What ever? it was below that Im sure before this rad was in, say last winter. Its 12.5* overnight, 13.5* 1st thing am in here on average, 14.5* at its max Ive ever had it.. say 4pm. Thanks for the door info: I'll go over this tmrw, but yes that's the idea/ setting the hinge in your photo like that. I did put the architrave in by 1/4", or rather away for hinge clearance: looks spot on perfect to me too rather a fluke. @MJNewton Kitchen is now L 42.5*...R 44*. Bathroom L 37.6*... R 44.4* I think that's max I'm gonna get in these two (coldest) adjacent rooms down here.. temps are going down now 9pm/ off.

No no its set to 22* (but never gets there, so safe until it goes off at 9pm). I dont think this ashp works like that 'flat out until' scenario, if only it did Id have more heat Im sure. It tends to do a burst, then idles to almost no heat at all from rad for a good 20 mins usually (or 90mins from 6.30M to 8am unfortunately), another burst etc. Now Ive noticed it does a mini burst thing perhaps of a 5* drop perhaps only, unnoticeable in the rads' heat by hand, bc now it creeping up to 39* (LHS in kitchen rad) again. I think this is like a 10 minute interval thing.

@MJNewton its a bit tricky cos temps are changing. 5* in a few minutes. 2 mins ago I read in kitchen L 40.2*... R 38.9*. Now its L 35.5*... R 34.9* (cooling down period?) And bathroom 2 mins ago L 31.8*... R 39.7* Just now bathroom its L 26.1*.. R 27.8* (I think its surely doing this on / off/ on thing until desired temp is reached in thermostat room, I presume normal, so how you're meant to do these temp readings at all I've no idea). By god its cold in my bathroom as usual.

Hold your horses MJN the temps are going up, I might have peaked too soon. The radiator is hot tho! not stupid hot, it doesn't do that but it doesn't get much hotter than this, if at all. This is a hotter rad than it was with the default ashp setting @ 50* flow temp, because we changed it up to 55*C. Whether the room is heated by this rad tho.. is entirely to do with the room's insulation (or total lack of it) not the rad: this rad would heat my workshop ok, but, I'm very cold in the kitchen even with my fan heater on too, as usual (so, not the rads' fault then > so rad is working fine).

How does this sound for starters.. Kitchen: LHS 33.3*... RHS 34.7* Bathroom: L 31*... R 35.7* ?? and yet another mystery.. chap in youtube clip said few times idea is "you want a drop of 12*C from one side to the other". Eh??

Onoff I need to talk doors with you. Respite from CH mumbo jumbo. Ive got my door as photo above, in position, gaps all good. So I'm ready to get my hinges fixed. The only way I can see of doing this, as my architrave prevents me attatching hinge to this frame edge, and also, bc even if I could my screws would be almost at the periphery of the frame here.. is to fix like joe's idea, on the inside face of the frame. So actually I'll have to cut a bit out from my plant-on.. or maybe add plant-on over it I just thought of course. So I need to chisel out a recess for the hinge. That's fine. What is tricky tho is using the hinge plate 'back side' this way (on the frame). And the weight of my door is alot it seems, whether I need to be very specific about the screws chosen for these 3x fixings (into the 'back' of each hinge plate as it were), if I need to sit the hinge on a "shelf" for support within the frame, IE my chiselled reccess bit. Should the screws' shafts be as wide say as the hinge holes? thats a big 6mm hole. Then I can only think, in order to get the hinge in correct position on the door face, I gotta attatch hinges to frame 1st > put door into position with wedges etc back like it is now > fix hinges onto doors. IE do it in reverse-way to your suggestion/ usual way iirc, of fixing hinges to door 1st: If I did it this way, Id never get the hinge position correctly onto the frame.. unless a big fluke. And lastly, have you any idea what I'm talking about-? thx zH

Haha. Its all i can cope with tbh. I am waiting for the system to go high right now tho.. and ill put up temps. I assume just put the probe near say the two lockshields, on copper pipes?

You might well have done, & so it didn't make any sense then, & it doesn't make any sense now.

There's nothing wrong with it, nothing to fix afaict (apart from overnight noise & odd morning delay.. Vaillant's fault & to fix yes, but nowt to do with what temp the rads get up to). All rads get hot. They work as they should. Im still bewildered by any suggestion that they aren't. Bc my rooms are cold? b b but that's bc the house is freezing/ I expected it to remain freezing/ you cannot possibly get warmth retained here bc of no insulation/ no normal CH system could here/ unless.. only a stove in every room could, or twin jet engines put in.

Just looking at a clip of balancing before I start, chap seems to suggest its all to do with -the order- in which the rads heat up. Or something. Even this isn't clear as to how the order can affect a room's temperature other than surely for 5 inconsequential minutes' lag when it starts to heat the room relative to the next rad which Id have thought is entirely to be expected, and not something either that you can change, or, even warrants changing either, if we're only talking minutes of difference: I mean why would i care if room X's rad gets up to temp at 7.10pm, when rad Y in next room gets up to temp 7.15pm? you wouldn't even register it, or if you did, you'd only notice it for 5mins. How would this meagre 5 mins be helping my fuel bills? And how this 5 minutes difference can alter a rooms temperature.. is bewildering (magic 5 minutes maybe??). More total confusion as to what the purpose of this exercise is. And the word -order- has barely even been mentioned within the replies too, but seems completely fundamental to this chaps explanation of the core purpose of the exercise. I have never been so confused, by anything, in my entire life.

Hi ash.. fine that is understood, yes I guess I could be assuming all rad temps are similar when they might not be in actuality (but if my spotty herberts likely left all lockshields open, as Id have thought they'd be brand new, then Id have thought it a very fair assumption to say that the rads are all similar temp even with my hand & if the last in the line too is making its room the only toasty room.. but I get your point). Where do I tape my sensor part of thermometers, any specific place or just on pipes somewhere around the rad in Q?

Ive got the positions on the door where the hinges go, up and down, on the 3x ledges I see on all the www eg's and makes most sense due to structurally thickest on these 3x ledges across.. but its how far inwards the hinges go on the door, when to fix them on, if ive got to also fix them to the frame, & where on the frame to fix them. I cant undo any of the door as the ledge and braces are glued & screwed. So its really whether I just set the plant on strips to follow this warp, or, do I just pull the door closed forcing it in slightly onto the plant on strips set where a non warped door would sit 5mm in. Or is this 5mm warp normal to expect on such a homemade door? thanks.

Just why Im measuring the pipes temps, nothing more than that tbh, why i cant determine if a room or a rad is or isnt getting warm just by feeling it. The book a good suggestion, but likely wont understand nearly all of it if I cant understand the purpose of this balance procedure. Surely as a user we should be able to just set it to go on to a temp, expect it to go on then, get to the temp. At the mo im getting it to get to the temp just fine by all obvious accounts bc i can feel the rads are hot, & know without any question the reason some rooms warm & others are not isnt anything to do with the rads but purely down to insulation factors (so why the need to do any further temp tests if the rad temps check out seemingly all just fine totally eludes me), but, the only thing its not doing is coming on when i set it to. And I mean not just one rogue rad lagging behind ( if this was the case, then yes, i could finally see some logic in the pipe temp tests) I mean all the rads simultaneously: I set it to go on 6.30 am, it waits until 7.50am. Infuriating. But this aspect, the only one I have as in question, apart from the overnight noise that is, isnt mentioned. I don't get any of it.

Back on ground I understand.. Can anyone advise here. door in position & Im happy about its size to frame: 2mm gap to frame --LHS here-- hinges side ( 1mm gap @ 2/3 rds way up, a slight bow in of frame here), 3mm gap above & @ rhs (latch side) nice even gaps here.. then lastly below: door hopefully skimming carpet opening in this side. plant on strips not yet fixed, so door resting on 4 x temp stops, wedged in around. I got a few issues. First is my door pulls out a bit, so there's a slight warp in it, top rhs as we look at it here, 5mm or so. So the door wont close flush onto the temporary stop behind, set in exactly 20mm as per door depth. Then I have where to position hinges, specifically where on the frame to attatch them. I know i asked this before, but now 1 st time I have door in final position, where they can possibly attatch to isn't quite so easy to see. thanks zoot.

No I saw it. But just trying desperately to understand what on earth this process is for 1st. But after days trying I admit I'm defeated. So I'll put things on pipes tonight, give readings, without any understanding of the purpose, & Im back at sq 1 asking: I mean why wouldn't i surely get same flow and rtn temps if I know the rad lockshields are all open? ( or rather nothing suggests they aren't). Why do i need to do a test to reason this? Why if all rads the same temp do i need to measure one to the next, for what purpose is this?? Are they in balance as is if they all feel similarly hot, same time coming on? (I mean surely yes they are after all.. so.. why the next step of putting thermometres on??). Now if one or more rads showed unnenness to the others, then I could see logic to the procedure.. but they're all the same, so I can't. Just bc i see unnevenness in room temps it is not incumbent upon their respective rads not being in sync, being uneven relative to the next...... its soley bc the rooms in question are ridiculously cold, bc of no insulation. But whether room temp has - any- relevance to this procedure of putting these thermometres on pipes tho.. I have no idea whatsoever. A mystery. But I'll now do as asked. Thanks, zoot.

@dangti6 I am far from aggressive. Im defeated by this, confused by this, frustrated by this. And there will likely never have been any human, in all our 2 million year existence, & Id put alot of money on this.. who has been aggressive whilst talking about cauliflower cheese.

Ok. I need to ask one simple Q, get a reply. Right back to sq 1. If off the shelf rads have lockshields open, my team of spotty trainees each putting a rad in then doing bets on their phones.. is it not reasonable to think that because i also seem to find temp similarity in the rads plus similarity in their timings coming on/ going of.. is it not reasonable to assume that 1) my spotty herberts highly likely just left the rads as they are, not fiddled with lockshields ( cos its work & they wanna do their phones).. and so 2 ) it is highly likely that the radiator lockshields, are all open?

I have listened, to everything, please don't assume that I haven't/ that I don't. It is only bc I do not understand, even with replies, that the info is not sinking in. Tbh it still doesn't. If I had one of you here, saying the same things but i could see/ read expressions... I likely would have grasped the basics of this long ago. It seems, poosibly, that I still simply do not understand what on earth this exercise is for/ what is the goal/ why mine as they are cannot be deemed balanced. I had thought 1 st they are highly likely balanced as is ( the rads) bc they all seem the same temp, the same time coming on, the same simultaneous aspect to coming on (none obviously lagging behind in heat appearing). It seemed logical, from all these similarities, to conclude they must be in balance, regardless of their size I cannot alter, and that their temp must be the only thing that can change/ therefore be the " currency" of the balance exercise. Then it was hollered at me NO!! Etc etc reply after reply. So, if not... then the only logical thing, to me then, must be that the word balance must be relative to something other than the rads' temp being in balance & the only possible thing then: the room temps. As this is the ultimate facet of the rads function, to alter the rooms' temp by their input, I was resolute in thinking the term was 'wrong' & balance radiators as an exercise - had- to be referring to ultimately balancing room temps. Yesterday, mulling over your spanner in the works explanation of "trv's" being the way room temps can easily be regulated, altho i do not have trv's (more yet mild confusion, as why would you mention them then?) plus you saying that actually 'balancing rads' WAS correct as an expression after all- I tried to reevaluate the whole shebang. I read, I listened. I was so brain fugged by now I put huge dollop of ginger paste in my cauliflower cheese sauce not garlic paste & I concluded that after all, now right back to sq 1.. I haven't the foggiest idea of what is to balance, what the goal is, why my rads cannot be deemed in balance just as they are if they're all coming on the same... right back to sq 1. I do not know my ass from my elbow, or maybe I do, I haven't a clue of anything. My cheesy dinner was an abomination. Like my understanding of all this. If you said that my cheesy dinner was, in fact actually perfectly ok... I wouldn't be surprised at all tbh.

Joe, This implies to me you do at least understand why and how I have misinterpreted this term, even if you are not prepared to say (I think also true of most too preferring to club together, instead of seeing my pov only bc it's unpopular to do so). Anyway.. Thanks for this further explanation of the basics. Ok its clearer you explaining this shifting, but also adds more confusion. You are here explaining how radiator temps can actually be balanced after all by shifting etc. Fine. But, if it will not/ cannot/ ever be of any use in my house (due to the huge 6* coldest to the warmest room temps) then I can conceive only of the following of being of use: not a similarity whatsoever in radiator temps (this will be useless, is what I have now) but only, only, only a very large inbalance in rad temps could possibly ever result in evenness in room temps. Also my end of the line rad, is not the coldest as you suggest is normal, but the warmest, so pushing more heat to this rad would do the opposite of what's needed (yet another opposite/ the confusion never ceases for me). Perhaps because my house is so unusually cold -plus - a new extention added vastly different to most of old cold house, that, contrary to all normal houses where a semblance of parity in room rad temps is the norm & just 'a bit of shifting heat from rad to rad is all that's needed' to achieve optimum balance.. here perhaps normally-similar radiator temps, or without question same rad temps, are totally useless to be of any possible consideration. Thanks zoot.

I have yet to find out how to jump into step 1 > I'm about to. If it needs plummewry tools.. then I need to buy 1st. But before I've asked a Q about my 6*C difference.. the implications of this.. & whether the whole exercise isn't made kaput if A) I have this huge room temp discrepency, & if B) I already -afaik- have a very high 55* flow temp setting, & only 2 of 8 rooms achieving decent warmth. I just want to know the exercise isn't pointless.. unless I ramp my source up to no.11, blow it up.. along with mrs. miggins at no.73. thx

Understand step1 is to get a parity in rad temps/ get them all established as fully open (And here Id imagine, is temporarlily, briefly & the only-flamin-do-diddly-time the radiators will be balanced one to the next!!). I understand now that the -last step, the whole point- is to get a balance in room temps, not a balance in radiators whatsoever. Thanks MJN. [[And special thanks to Gav_P: who hugely kindly sent me 4x pipe temp thermometres. Anyone who wants to borrow: I can send on]]

Also fixing my hinges to my door: I see various positions of the 'barrel' (I dont know what its called, but the centre section with the moving parts in) either on the edge of the door, or just off it, or a bit further out. Where should I position this bit? Huge delay on this job- no fixings with hinges, so alot of trial & error getting screws/ not sure if right even now.