zoothorn

@Declan52 spot-on advice as always.. that's very helpful/ I was wondering if a notch needed in me pots. I'll certainly try putting in what I can, now I'm reassured about squashing the fluff down/ not ruining my pB ceiling. I just have the nagging thing about the cables: whether they'll determine now how much extra fluff I can put in, if its paramount they lie ontop of it, I assume its only mostly so (some will innevitably have to pass thru & up, and some within the fluff too/ skirting along a joist or so).. it cannot all go ontop, even as I have it now call it 200mm. I'm gonna aim for 300, try for 350. Much appreciated- zH

Hi @ash_scotland88 thanks for casting your opinion/ reading my stupidly long thread! (Im a newbie/ amateur, hence takes me 6x to understand stuff, let alone 10x to build it). I've thought of your 'coldsink' idea (PeterW also has this opinion) but alas I have to correct you: in fact the lower room (directly below) -doesn't- have such a hallway. So it has the same wall (old end of house) as one of its 4 sides, just as the room above. In fact, both similar in area too. So the sort of mystery is, to me anyway, why if the lower room has a rad in half size of room above, & with all 4 walls similar, why is this lower room super toasty.. but room above totally different/ cold. Yes the lower room is 250mm lower; but has a rad half the size, and a big (obvious) weak point too: it has a cheap pine door opening to the outside, that's not even airtight (I go in/out of 20x a day too). Anyway I need to cross off the 'doables' 1st, the loft undoubtadly 1st, esp if I find a 4ft area of bare pB up there, where my spark didnt bother pulling the insulation back over (undid a pB section for access, to fit 4 downlights). The 2nd being the door yet to make for top room: this doorway, unlike room below, goes into the adjacent master bedroom (a knock-thru created in old end wall).. a blanket up temporarily here, which tantalisingly, has made a bit of difference (like 1*). Balancing rads 3rd, in case this huge rad isn't putting out what it should. Then if these 3 don't work.. I'm up a gum tree (& tbh I might have to call it a day, just always will be a cold'ish room.. like all other rooms are, bar the toasty workshop!). Lining the end wall is 4th.. but loathed to, 1) bc of space intrusion/ lessening, 2) the character gone, 3) the work/ mess/ logistics to do it (& 4) it might it not be the cold cause anyway, if lower rooms seems ok). The other side of

I did to the builder & to BCO both happy- & we did discuss this sloped area, after BCO telling me a figure he told builder to put in (I recall as I was surprised it was thick'ish PIR). But as to exact fig he said, I just went with it being a him + builder talk, not my having to note then AND 'check' as it was being built (not knowing it'd be impossible to access, even once a hatch put in). You do put a certain ammount of trust in your builder- altho I admit I knew he was stringing me along at this stage in other areas, so it could be he hasn't put in what he should. But even so, if 100mm in, as I know to be minimum, instead of 150mm, its not going to be the sole reason I can only ever get the room warmed to 17.9* max, however long the huge rad is on.

Ok thanks A_L. I'm not exactly sure where this info leaves me. It may be possible these two PIR pieces are in fact 75mm tho.. I cant get near enough to get a measure on (& looked to me like 50mm Ive use alot/ under caber floor etc). I'll try squeeze in but Im quite fat might get stuck. only the squirrel could rescue me then.

150mm?? PIR?? 200mm?!? So this is more than the 140mm PIR I was told to put in the timber frame inner wall. But that doesn't compute. I'm not sure if your point is telling me what the B.regs stipulate (I still cant glean any info from this table, bar '100mm thickness' so I'm also unsure where 150 & 200mm figs even come from), or if your suggesting what I now have to do is approach my builder to tell him he needs to come back/ add 50mm, or approach my BCO & ask him to tell builder to.. or, if you're implying I have to top up the 100mm I find, by min 50mm, somehow, in order to satisfy myself that the cold isn't coming in here. I haven't got a clue what these tables, and posts surrounding them, are for/ what points is being made relative to the thickness figures.

The BCO surely is coming back if he's got to sign it off. He hasn't even seen the pB & electrics job yet/ hasn't been in since the builder left exactly a year ago when he ticked his boxes off as it were/ so I could pay & be done with him. All I know is along this one sloped side, 100mm of PIR is in, albeit not very well afaict.. but I cant access it to change it.

Hi ProDave- understood. But if I only have so much 'loop'/ slack between the 4x downlights, if I put in 300mm worth of fluff, the cables have no choice but be -mostly- covered by it. I'll only be able to lie the 'top of the loop' on the surface. And if I go 350mm, then its all buried for sure. So what do I do?

No dpm, this is why I'm asking if anyone knows what this figure is! Im given a table, but there's nothing on there, a bible with pg 16 Im told to look at, but nothing on there either. Surely someone would just know. 100mm? 75mm? 125mm? Its likely to be one of these, 140mm of rigid is just too thick for any ceiling area, if I've been told to put 140mm in the walls. Anyway I can't be responsible for any shortcomings my builder might have built it to. If it should be 100mm, and BCO measures 75mm.. then builder has to come back. Same with general loft stuff I'm at least 8sqm short (if not another full 16sqm of 100mm too).. but as I need to crack on/ as I'm cold/ I can't wait for BCO.

Yup understood- my board does go a bit bendy in middle you see. Its gonna be a helluva struggle getting anything else in tho tbh even with board across joists. One other thing: the leccy cables: they do a loop up & over, in series etc. I've seen clips whereby its said to bring them up on top out the way.. but its innevitable some will be within the insulation, actually a fair bit, esp if I'm going super thick adding my 3rd layer/ much will be immersed.

I'm still stumped. I thought the point in Q was the rigid stuff in the sloped ceiling-? 100mm or thereabouts, I'm roughly sure. I'm not understanding any of the table stuff I'm afraid, but am I meant to?. But thanks for efforts to help.

@PeterW Ive used up all of builders fluff.. & I'm exactly 1/4 of the loft area of it short (if two layers of this is acceptable for B.Regs that is). That p*sses me off, but doesn't surprise me, goes with the other 'string him along he'll never know' xyz. If Id asked him to put a hatch in, as he asked, he'd have had to put in 270mm min as BCO would go up & look. As he'll do now. And Im 70mm short (I think) after this 2nd layer done. So I need another 8sqm of this orange to finish this 2nd layer, then a last layer. But I just dont see how its possible to put another layer on even 70mm. If I put a board on, it'll put too much pressure on the pb with these two layers surely.. so I just don't see how its feasable to cover anywhere other than at reach from the hatch. The only way is crawl along centre 100mm wide brace- but its so cramped at 4' at pitch, one foot wrong & disaster.

Not on my mellon patch you don't. Nice creatures. I did find a probable p*ss patch mind you (unless it was me/ I am doing very occasional 'expulsions' now Im middle aged esp whilst crouching). Just gotta block up his access point.

I cannot see anything there, there's not even a '100mm' figure, and I dont see any notes.. I see a blue area, but again nothing relating to insulation figures. Thanks, but its like a bible of info to me/ its for building control, not really customers afaict. If anyone knows what the rigid insulation is meant to be here, sloped ceiling bit? (& why it should be any different to a flat area). I do find another 50mm hidden under/ so I have 100mm here in fact. thanks tho- zoot schmoot.

What is the regs, & why is just a bit of ceioling that slopes, as opposed to it just being flat, mean anything different needed here anyway?

Hi dpm. There's a slope on only one side, here he was told to put in 50mm rigid. I can see he's done that.. but is not properly fixd in, loose/ awful old offcut scraps, & likely gaps/ but its too inaccessible for me to redo it. I can close the void above it though approx 200mm, with orange stuff, but it means closing the gap up to the white roof membrane. Tbh its all on hold until I know what to do about these 'skieling' areas: both sides they're 200mm voids, this slope side just going down an extra 2ft .

warmth? fk no. they're better off in their tree.

Yes & no. Yes I think they're not sh*tting up there, but no I don't think they won't be sh*tting somewhere else. They dart in, bury their nut, & f-off. Or come in, unbury their nut & munch it thenceforth, & f-off forthwith.

ProDave should be pushing this 1st layer between joists right up to/ meeting the roof white membrane? I think the word might be the skielings/ anyway the least accessible part of each joist row, where the roof is nearest, & where there seems to be a 200mm gap, I think area ontop of the walls is this bit?

Aha ok joe thanks. I thought you were designing your new wall.

Yes, but they visit rather than live with me like my mice. No droppings, no goings to- fro from main house loft to this. Hence i was really happy to find acorn bits. I thought it sounded too big for a mouse! So another job to patch up eaves gaps.. why they're even built big enough for a rat size mammal to enter is beyond me. It jus5 shouldnt be.

Re- reading all info on how to do this, Peter Stark says put 2nd layer perp to the 1st. So when its suggested put x "over joists" i thought this meant over the top all along each joist ( so not perp, but the same way as the joist, bc the joist is the insulative weak point). But only Peter S's reply specifies which way this is relative to 1st joist, and is not the way I thought. If 2 nd layer goes perp to the 1 st, then i can see its possible to get some going up the wall. So its this 'over joists' i need to clarify.

@PeterW Sorry I'm not following your steps for the 2nd layer. I'm using the orange stuff for this (because its half filling the loft as it is, very hard to manoevre it away just to do the 1st layer, let alone pull it all out > replace with bought 200mm stuff > then put it all back up). Is full width 600mm? I'm not following 'measure from hatch to builders sh*te..' nor the following 'now roll it up..' sentences. Total blank, trying hard as i can to think what you mean- apologies. I thought the 2nd layer is to go in the same orientation as the 1st, but just over the joists. So then I'll have like a bumpy up, down, up, down effect.. which the 3rd layer rolls, running perp, have to snake their way over. Or do you mean just totally fill the whole area with the 2nd layer, in same orientation as 1st-?

@PeterW I've just read your post above, appreciated, having actually started job before I read it.. so I've repositioned one layer of 100mm between joists. I've got to go get the 4x plant pots, so if I need more insulation/ can get this too. So afaict I've got enough orange for another layer ontop. Couple of Q's: should I push my 1st layer as far twds skielings as poss/ to meet the white roof lining, or leave a gap? (air circulation?). Basically can I stuff the tricky skielings areas between white sheet & top of wall? My 2nd layer: just to cover the joists, ie same orientation as 1st layer? not sure how I can get it up the wall tbh. Maybe last layer possibly: I think I can only cope with one added new bought layer, to lie perp/ ontop of all these orange ones running across. Im so restricted, plus its a very tricky job as it is. I'll have to do this new layer tmrw. I did find a 4ft sq area of bare pB/ no insulation (pushed aside) above my bed.. my spark's fault, he used this pB section as access to fit lights. Couldn't be arsed to pull it back. thanks- zoot

hi Declan. Not bought any extra yet. But I have dived in, and done the 1st layer, between joists. Awful job due to confined space. I was happy to find squirrel evidence.. bc it means it wasn't mice as I thought, IE no unpleasant 'evidence' (nut bits instead.. rather cute in fact), & no thru-way hole from old loft, fingers x'd, my main concern. But I do need to address where nutkins is getting in. These damn skieling gaps it must be, why the need to be so big.. argh. So I need to buy -one- more whole new layer/ rolls of stuff. Opinions please. Thanks zoot