MrTWales

Hi, in my conservatory I have 12 of these light fittings (it's part of the original build and has a proper tapered roof and walls). In the winter it gets quite cold and I can feel the airflow under each of these lights if I put my hand there. I think you can get covers that you place around the fitting from the other side (like a face down plant pot) but I can't get to that side, and I guess there are different fittings that have a fireproof surround but it would take 12 of these and I assume I'd have to get someone to fit them so that would cost a fair bit. I just wonder if I'm missing something. I guess I could use some silicone and cut it out if a bulb needs replacing but I'd worry about not being able to swist the fitting. I also wondered about some kind of sticky circular covering for the outer gap where most of the airflow is but I can't see anything online. So I think I just deal with it or get 12 new fittings and get them fitted?

Thanks, it may help to see their website or something even if they are too far away and probably charging a lot more now. I would have thought that the panels + inverter + bits + two huge batteries would cost more than the quote but clearly not! The whole battery cost is a mystery to me as the list of costs I've seen seem too high (eg Which magazine have a list of batteries and approx price).

Thanks, the HMRC wording was poor imo in several places. They updated the quote for a battery, which was £9.6k if I take out the vat. This is 12 x 400w panels + 5.4kw battery + the inverter and all other bits. It seems way way more than your quote given the two larger batteries and more panels.

That's what everyone else seems to think! I called HMRC and they just looked up and directed to that note, but couldn't say anything else. The actual regulation is https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/361/article/7/made and this includes the line "Relevant supplies of energy-saving materials by a person who installs those materials in residential accommodation in England and Wales and Scotland." This ties in with comments online in that you pay VAT on a battery if it's installed on existing solar panels as you need the install + materials to get the zero rate. They have just got it wrong I think in that they surely couldn't have just been dishonest?

They just got back to me re my question about VAT and say this: "The VAT-Zero rule applies to the solar PV installations, and not on the equipment. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-the-vat-treatment-of-the-installation-of-energy-saving-materials-in-in-great-britain " This doesn't seem correct to me?

Thanks, I did sift around and what I saw made it seem OK for the build but they wouldn't reckon on all that stuff on top I guess. I just know all the stuff was bought from Selco! I really hope that they can add any weight near the edges only. If the mounting brackets are connected then I can't see why not, but I may be missing something.

Given what I thought that batteries of that size cost that doesn't seem like a bad price at all. I have the super optimistic thought that one day you will be able to import / export from the grid at similar-ish rates. Yes there are always efficiency issues no doubt but it really seems like this should happen for the greater good, and in this case there is less reason to have batteries unless you wanted to be off grid for parts of the year. Can't see it happening any time soon though.

I think so, based on this picture. This is all helpful stuff for me so thanks for the info. That is a lot of battery storage you will have. I just wish they were cheaper and smaller. Depending on what the quote I was thinking of something like 5-6kW. I work from home so this helps a bit I guess with usage patterns.

Nice. The width for me is 4.6m interally so I guess the joists (if I'm using the correct word) are around 5m apart. I've got no issue with the weight if it's above the edges but I'm the sort of person who gets nervous hanging a picture on a plasterboard wall so having lots of weight in the middle worries me a bit. I'd hope that if they are connected rows then you can load of the ends though so the walls take most of the weight.

I know that the rafters inmy case are 7 x 2 Kiln Dried, spaced every 40cm, which seems strong but I really wish it wasn't just ballast. My roof is fibreglass, so has this thin paint coating on top and I've got no idea whether something can stick to it without screwing through it. The panels are pretty heavy as it is.

Thanks, I actually asked about it (the VAT) on the day they sent the quote but they have not come back. It doesn't look great really. The other guy who visited said that they would use a ValkPro+ L10 system, and they look quite nice.

Thanks, that is useful. Just to be clear, you are saying that they have got the quote wrong by including the VAT? That doesn't fill me with much confidence if true. Ah I see, that makes sense. I did Google it and it seemed like it may clip on somehow but without more info I'm not sure how they could reckon on penatrating the roof or slipping on the sides. It really does seem like what they use for ballast is always ugly looking! Trust me, I'm trying to get more quotes! Most of the time I've not even got a reply, but one guy did some around and another is coming on Monday so I may end up with three which would be OK. One firm, who are 45 mins away, said that they are so busy in the local area that they don't cover wider afield at the moment. Baring in mind that this is on a flat roof (so no scaffolding) and I assume it's one day's work (?), that shows how much work this sector is getting right now.

Wow, that really is way more than I thought. Based on that I'd think that it is viable for people who work at home and change a few habits to get >50% from the panels?

Ah interesting. Looks like I wasn't quite getting how much you can get in the winter months. I was assuming that there would be virtually nothing for three months, not that much for another three, and a decent amount for the rest. My panels will be flat-ish so it's not optimal, but then again I'd get sun for longer and there isn't really any shade.

Surely I won't have much excess in the winter though? I've been assuming that there will be weeks when the panels generate hardly anything. The gas cost is actually interesting to me as I looked at gas usage at the same time I looked at electric (turns out I use ~ 10Kwh per day on average for electric). I knew that heating was a huge part of the gas cost, but even allowing for no heating for half the year it's still 80% of the total or around there. Based on the lowest months it really seems like heating the water and using the gas hobs doesn't actually cost all that much. I'm probably tending towards getting a battery so I guess that changes things too as I won't waste anything then in the winter so would be better off using gas for the water.

Thanks, interesting. The one guy that came around (quote pending) said that any diversion to an immersion heater wouldn't be covered as they have had so many issues with them. But they would install a wifi switch, for example, if I got one but it wouldn't be under the warranty. To be honest, I'm happy with that as I won't have any excess for much of the year (so gas is better) and the hot water tank keeps water hot for days if it's not used and I only use the gas for three 30 mins slots a week now with the occasional boost. I've not looked into it but I'd hope that you could do clever things with a wifi switch also (eg use certain triggers if it works with IFTTT etc). I'm not sure about a battery yet so I'll see what the extra cost is. The guy who came around said that he has a tarrif where electric is cheaper at night so the battery gets charged then.

At the end of the day, I can afford it and want to do the right thing + geeky tendanices would provide some fun + I hate waste and seem to spend half may day turning lights off after people etc (they are LED so hardly drawing any power, but still). I just want to get a decent quote with low risk of a bad install - perhaps this quote is reasonable but it worries me a bit that they didn't even visit the house. I think the equation must be something like 50% of power used if self generated over a year (or a little less if you can reduce gas usage a bit). This seems very optimistic to me in general, but for me perhaps it is may be viable. I do work from home and the washing machine/dishwasher can always run during the day (anyway actually as they are smart or at least have a timer), plus lots of cooking. This would probably be the only time we use the two electric hob rings that we have (we use the gas ones) as I guess that would be better if there was enough excess. Plus there are tiny savings from using the emmersion heater sometimes etc, and some way down the line an electric car. Anything that needs a payback period of 9/10 years must make a lot of assumptions but interest rates are very low (so you can't invest and get a decent return without taking a risk) and the panels themselves should last for ages. My parents got panels installed around 15/20 years ago (they got a grant and get paid by the grid even now) and there hasn't been a single problem with them. I guess inverters and batteries may not last so long, no idea.

For what it's worth, the quote is part of a pack with all sorts of data and charts (no idea how standard that is). It comes up with a payback period of 9 years. Maybe that could be optimistic, but I do work from home so could use a fair chunk of enegy in the day. Plus my next car will be electric and that will be sat in the driveway most days so that could add value. In any case, I want to maximise fun and not money and solar panels would be fun for me!

Thanks - I've asked about battery options but I'm still confused about the VAT. Just Googling it now it seems like the change in March covered materials and not just the actual install costs.

It's a tough time to get quotes it seems, but I finally have one. I must admit, I did think that there was no VAT on equipment if it was part of an install but I guess not. I'm a bit dubious about how this connects to the roof, esp baring in mind that this was just sent after I sent a couple of pictures (ie they were never on site). The one guy to visit (quotation pending) said that they would use a ballast method, but this seems like it's something different. Anyway, any comments would be appreciated!

Yes this is the one single thing that slightly worries me. It's bonkers in that if the roof was exactly the shape it would be with panels as part of its construction, it would be no issue as the size requirements for me would still be met, so how is there an extra step because the top bit is made of panels? I'm still relaxed but this is the one point that could cause an issue if someone complained (doubtful I hope) and the Council decided to act (even more doubtful I hope, but who knows). I guess the Council can't say that it's OK given the regs but they could potentially use some words that suggest they'd be unlikely to take action. I'm almost tempted to Google about this dogging issue....

Just on the planning permission issue, some guy came around and will give a quote and he didn't think planning permission was needed (he seemed amazed that anyone would even worry about it!). The council did get back to be and just gave some general text, including how it's up to the person to decide if they think that the rules are met, but they did include the text below. I explicitly mentioned the ridgeline point in my email but they didn't mention this, which I guess is a good thing. In regards to your enquiry it is stated at Class A.1(b) that: in the case of solar PV or solar thermal equipment installed on a flat roof— (i) the solar PV or solar thermal equipment would be sited within 1 metre of the external edge of the roof; or (ii) the solar PV or solar thermal equipment would protrude more than 1 metre above the plane of the roof; Also, the actual regs are strange in that they refer to "a dwellinghouse" or "a building situated within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse". In my case it's essentially a fancy shed not attached to the house, so I think it's an outbuilding legally speaking but I can't see anything specific for this. The only other thing I'd say is that when the building was being built I spoke to the council at length (it was hard to get through to the correct person but when I did they were very helpful). I was worried about part of the roof extending beyond the wall going, technically, an inch over the property boundary at the back. As it happens it doesn't, but he said that they would only look into it if someone complained and even then they have discretion. He couldn't say as much, but we even looked up the house on Google maps and it was pretty clear that they wouldn't be dicks about enforcing a law where nobody benefits. As such, I'm pretty mellow about it really. I also expect that there will be pressure on making it easier for people to install solar/wind turines etc in the future and any council engaging in pointless pedantry would be a terrible look for gthem.

This is a good point. One thing though is that the roof height in only 2 metres so I could potentially stand on something and clean them now and again, though its not ideal as I'm a lazy git.

Thanks. There are just so many factors. I read a peice last night that said that using 10 degrees was often better than 30 degree for space reasons but it seems like even then there are shading issues without large gaps. One thing in that thread was the mention of GivEnergy batteries. The pre order options there look way cheaper than anything I'd seen before and not quite as big as many. I'd given up the idea of a battery but it does seem like it will shortly be more viable. Then the question is whether I want a battery in a games room, and whether it could just be added later or whether I'd need to plan ahead to make it easier....

I'll just add that my cat walks over the roof a lot and no pigeon is going to go near the place so I guess that helps me!