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The Economics of our SunAmps


TerryE

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We use 2 × SunAmp PVs for our HW system in a household of 3 people.

  • According to our water bills, our consumption is about 83 ltr per person per day. Our pattern of use is pretty even across the year: more showers in the summer; an occasional shared bath in the winter.
     
  • The year round average temperature of our rising main is 11.3 °C (Oh, the wonders of logging everything in a DB and knowing how to do SQL subqueries).
     
  • The H/W manifold is mixed to 53°C (perhaps a little too hot for kiddies but we are an adult household).
     
  • I estimate that ~40% of our water is run as hot. (The washing machine and dishwasher, bogs, etc. are cold fill.)
     
  • Cranking these number into a heat calculator, this gives a total heating requirement of just under 5 kWh / day + another 1 kWh / day heat loss as the SunAmps are tight side-by-side and amazingly insulated.  (I don't separately meter the SunAmps, but a quick sanity check of my actual half-hourly electricity meter readings would indicate this figure is about 20% too high, but let us stick with this figure for estimating purposes. 
     
  • All heating is done at cheap rate tariff ( fixed at 9.66 p / kWh inc VAT) so this costs us ~ £211 p.a.
     
  • Using an ASHP to supply the SunAmps at 40 °C, say,  would drop this to 2.5 + 1 kWh saving us less than £100 p.a. or about £1K over 10 years.

So in our case if  we decide to install an ASHP, there aren't enough savings to make it worth installing an extra pump,  a buffer tank and a two temperature ASHP to use it to (part) heat the DHW. 

 

We will stick to Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

A couple of caveats here: 

  • I think our pattern of water use would be very different with children in the household.
  • We have a fixed price deal until end 2022.  We are going to see a big hike in our next tariff, but I feel that this will settle down in the longer term, so I am ignoring this for now.
  • Thanks 4

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1 hour ago, Rishard said:

I will do just this. Was looking for a direct link maybe to the question as some people have discussed this in depth and may already know or have a link. There is a vast amount of content on here. Which is great. Not enough hours in my day clearly…

 

It is sometimes more effective doing a Google search with +buildhub or site:buildhub.org.uk in the search box.

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Rishard, I am not trying to be difficult here, but you have to remember this is a pro-bono community.  The regular posters who answer most questions tend to get pretty fed up answering some subtle variant of the same Q for the 20th time.  I always search a forum for the answer to a Q before asking.  90% of the time good Q and A resolves my issue, and when I do ask it is on some specific point that is more likely to get an answer.

 

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No apologies asked for or needed.  I am just trying to say that there is a lot of gold and gems there – in terms of useful knowledge and experience – amongst threads and blog posts.  Well worth mining! 😊

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6 hours ago, TerryE said:

The regular posters who answer most questions tend to get pretty fed up answering some subtle variant of the same Q for the 20th time

Not your 'job' anymore I know, but it has been suggested, quite often, about easy links to the usual stuff i.e working out U-Values from multiple layer make ups. I suggested a simple HTML5 calculator, but got shot down as it 'is too difficult', but not by you.

I am with @Ferdinand  use Google to search the site.

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@SteamyTea,  One of the strengths of the StackOverflow sites is that if I am learning about a new topic, then I will do a search by descending votes on the associated tag and then scan through the questions and drill down on any that look interesting.  The nearest that we have is the "Sort by" selector which allows you to sort topic by #comments and #views descending which does tend to hoist the most valuable topics to the first page or two. 

 

On another forum that I used to be a moderator on, the mods introduced a "Moderators Picks" pinned topic  which was a list of interesting / best topics for that sub-forum.  The trouble with doing this is that it is high maintenance and gets misleading if not  regularly maintained.

 

Note sure that we can square this circle.

 

Edited by TerryE
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26 minutes ago, TerryE said:

Note sure that we can square this circle.

Reputation points are one way. But then, for a laugh, I got @pocster to keep voting for me, then I returned the favour, once.

 

This is why it has been suggested that with things that require calculation i.e. thermal losses, electrical power, seasonal heating loads, some basic calculators are created. Nothing fancy, just basics, with an explanation of the workings. 

Then, when we get asked for the umpteenth time about how much insulation to put under an UFH system, we just point the person to the calculator, maybe a permanent link to a page, somewhere near the top, like the banner.

When I suggested this, I was told, not by you, but another, that if it was so simple, why don't I do it. So I did and posted up a link to a simple example.

Then I went to Canada and forgot all about it.

Think I may still have a folder if HTML5 calculators in my PC.

Edited by SteamyTea
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The sort of  Σ( area × U-value ×  ΔT) calc that I did in the blog entry below for Jan daily ΔT average and maybe by month should be within 10% and the following one.  It is certainly enough to explore marginal infrastructure costs and heating run-rate costs.  This is of course assuming that as-build performs broadly as-designed, that you haven't introduced any bridging or insulation flaws.  

 

PHPP introduces 2-D adjustments such as Psi-values, but TBH, if these are at all material then you've done something wrong in your wall / ceiling / slab mate-up. 

     

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