Square Feat

It is quite amazing how much information can be gleaned with some cross referencing.

 

Other things you need to find out being a rural plot.  Drainage.  Both foul and rainwater.

 

Is the plot big enough to support a treatment plant and associated drainage field and also a soakaway for rainwater. Taking into account building regs distance from buildings, boundaries and each other?

 

If not is there an agreement in place with adjacent land owners for a drainage field under their land?

 

Have percolation tests been done to prove the viability of land drainage (and calculate the size)?

 

Cost of getting mains water to the plot, or alternative viable private supply?

 

Cost of getting an electricity supply?

 

Access to the plot including rights over any private tracks etc.

 

If it is shared access over a private track how many houses use it already? When it gets to 5 houses it is required to be upgraded, surfaced to proper standards and then adopted.

Thanks Dave, yes that was all covered in the deeds and planning consent. The reason I wanted more info about surrounding landowners was to check how robust some of the agreements are. I'm sorry that I can't say any more at this stage and am being a bit cryptic, but I'm not wanting to give the location away! 

There's nothing there that's causing me concern re the water, drainage or services though. I know it all needs checking to make sure it's still current but it seems good so far.

I forgot to add a bit about sewer pipes and water lines etc. Most underground pipes or cables can be identified on-site by looking for the marker posts at the edge of the road.  Access to the proper asset plan should always be a part of the conveyancing and health and safety policy for your plot, but if you want to check before you get too carried away and invested in a plot then you can access these maps online for a fee.  If you were buying a plot at auction then you would want to do this anyway before you bid.  In Scotland these used to be available for free from the Scottish Water website but they seem to have farmed them out to three private companies who now charge a fairly modest fee for this.  Here's an example https://www.cornerstoneprojects.co.uk/scottishwaterplans/  This company charge £35.50 +Vat for a same-day service.

@Square Feet Excellent work. We bought our plot without planning permission (had been within the family for 30+ yrs) and although we knew a lot about it by word of mouth, we knew there would be a challenge getting planning and so I also did the same as you. Couple of things I learned along the way during a lengthy planning journey were:

 

(Although we’re in England, the principle of these will still apply)

1. Read the building regulations early - ‘You can get planning permission for something that you can’t build’; a passing comment by one of the architects we spoke to mentioned this in relation to fire access and it made a big difference to how we approached the planning and design. I was repeatedly disappointed in the consideration of ‘buildability’ by the architect (and I’m seeing the same being experienced by a neighbour with a different architect).

 

2. We got all the services drawings in advance (for free from the utilities company where we are - took a lot of effort not to be steered towards all the companies that charge for this).

 

3. We got the land deeds for all the surrounding plots - this was so we could see their covenants and understand the comparison against our own.

 

4. We carefully planned how we would engage the neighbours - doing this proactively before even submitting planning was key to us now having a very positive support from them all. It’s not been a perfectly smooth journey, but it gave us a starting point where they know we’ll keep them informed early and transparently. If I was buying in an unfamiliar location then it would very much depend on the specific circumstances as to whether it would be good to approach them before making an offer - especially if any permission would depend on agreements in place. In terms of de-risking, it could make sense, but would also depend on whether you’re building for yourself or as a development - their response may be very different. It’s all a risk, but just needs scrutinising. Perhaps find someone who would check your logic and offer you a different opinion.

 

The stage you’re at (and pre-planning approval) was the most frustrating for me, as so much of it is out of your control. Set your expectations low, but maintain your optimism and keep working the problem. Every piece of land once started with no permission.

 

Good luck.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Great_scot_selfbuild said:

@Square Feet Excellent work. We bought our plot without planning permission (had been within the family for 30+ yrs) and although we knew a lot about it by word of mouth, we knew there would be a challenge getting planning and so I also did the same as you. Couple of things I learned along the way during a lengthy planning journey were:

 

(Although we’re in England, the principle of these will still apply)

1. Read the building regulations early - ‘You can get planning permission for something that you can’t build’; a passing comment by one of the architects we spoke to mentioned this in relation to fire access and it made a big difference to how we approached the planning and design. I was repeatedly disappointed in the consideration of ‘buildability’ by the architect (and I’m seeing the same being experienced by a neighbour with a different architect).

 

2. We got all the services drawings in advance (for free from the utilities company where we are - took a lot of effort not to be steered towards all the companies that charge for this).

 

3. We got the land deeds for all the surrounding plots - this was so we could see their covenants and understand the comparison against our own.

 

4. We carefully planned how we would engage the neighbours - doing this proactively before even submitting planning was key to us now having a very positive support from them all. It’s not been a perfectly smooth journey, but it gave us a starting point where they know we’ll keep them informed early and transparently. If I was buying in an unfamiliar location then it would very much depend on the specific circumstances as to whether it would be good to approach them before making an offer - especially if any permission would depend on agreements in place. In terms of de-risking, it could make sense, but would also depend on whether you’re building for yourself or as a development - their response may be very different. It’s all a risk, but just needs scrutinising. Perhaps find someone who would check your logic and offer you a different opinion.

 

The stage you’re at (and pre-planning approval) was the most frustrating for me, as so much of it is out of your control. Set your expectations low, but maintain your optimism and keep working the problem. Every piece of land once started with no permission.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Nice one @Great_scot_selfbuild, that's really helpful thanks.  

1 - I'm speaking to Gus Potter of this parish for this very reason. As he is a former builder who is familiar with the stick build system who is now an SE with an architectural approach he seems ideal to avoid the very issues you mention. I've had experience of the disconnectedness of architects from the real practical world before and I am not keen to repeat. I'd much rather use an SE/former builder that can do a bit of the architectural side than an architect who hasn't a clue about the SE/construction side.

2 - Nice one thanks. I will look into this later.

3 - This is a very good tip. If I can get the plot loosely tied down I will definitely do this. at only £3.60 per it's a no-brainer.

4 - A lot of the houses in the vicinity are self-builds so I am looking forward to meeting the neighbours. Hopefully there will be some kindred spirits and good advice there.

 

I'm still trying to start the conversation re the plot purchase. I've made two approaches but it's been crickets so far. I will have some more time to put to making progress on that next week. I was hoping to avoid having to make a low-ball offer via my solicitor to get their attention as it's an easy way to get folk's backs up, but it may be the only way.

 

9 hours ago, Square Feet said:

I'm still trying to start the conversation re the plot purchase. I've made two approaches but it's been crickets so far. I will have some more time to put to making progress on that next week. I was hoping to avoid having to make a low-ball offer via my solicitor to get their attention as it's an easy way to get folk's backs up, but it may be the only way.

You are right in that a low offer can get folks back up. 

 

In some ways if you have a plot with fab views, location etc you know has sat for a long time then there is probably challenges associated with it. 

 

This sounds counter intuitive. But in some cases it can also work if you make a high, but broadly caveat initial offer This indicates you are serious about it and have already done you research "as a lay person". The seller can see you have spent some cash to date. 

 

The objective is to get them engaged and then lead them towards what is the true value of the plot. That could be to do with services, potential land contamination etc. 

 

The benefit of doing it this way is that once engaged you educate the seller to the point where they realise that they are not selling a Rolls Royce but a potential pup and might think, hey I'll just get rid of it as the purchaser (you) has explained the true value, the risk you are willing to take on.  The selling agent will also see your argument and might say.. this is the best offer you are going to get. 

 

@Square Feet

"The plot is owned by a limited company so I was able to find the owner's details including age and address. "

 

As an off the wall thought. There may be a significant tax implication to the seller. But you'll only find that out and if you help them mitigate by getting them to the table. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Gus Potter