Decking and DPC levels

[Bri44]

Hi all.

 

After some expert opinions on what the correct solution is for my decking and grass area.

 

Currently it is 40mm above the DPC, it is fastened to the house by wooden spars with no spacers, the spars are directly under the DPC.

 

it is causing the render to crack and crumble and has rising damp.

 

the fake grass has been laid straight onto hardboard with no drainage, it is now rotting away.

 

thanks 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Bri44

[Bri44]

One more picture

[Declan52]

It's cracking as the deck is swelling and putting pressure on the render. Your going to have to lift a few boards and try to prise it out from the house. A spade or a crow bar should be enough to move it. 

As for laying artificial grass on hardboard I don't know what to say about how bad that is. Artificial grass is full of holes to allow rain to drain through. Yours is draining beneath but has no where to go so is rotting the hardboard. It will all need ripped out, no other way round it.  

Your either going to have to redo the top with deck boards or treated timber and then relay the grass. 

Going from these photos I would highly doubt what is below the deck is done right either. 

You might be better lifting it all then examine what's been done and then do it right. Otherwise you might end up going through it some day.

[Ferdinand]

What is underneath? can you just take it away?

 

It classically needs to have a surface 150mm below the dpb, and everything sound and functional eg air bricks.

 

It may be that it is worth doing more given that you have to start eg put a gravel path and French Drain in, or go deeper and put skirt insulation on that wall.

 

What is the situation with the remainder of the house?

 

F

Edited April 12, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Bri44]

Here is underneath. It is approx 1 foot off the ground.

 

 

[Bri44]

Here is airbrick which is covered when grass down, it has two rows of holes

[Bri44]

The back door step seems to be supported by the spar fixed to the house. 

 

Second image is the air vent at front of house that I had to dig out.

[Bri44]

Here is the board under the grass at the opposite end to the house. My foot went through it last weekend 

[Bri44]

37 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

 

What is the situation with the remainder of the house?

 

F

 

 

The levels around the whole house are incorrect. The front garden i had to dig out a trench but still get splash back from the mud. The side of the house has paving that is level or just below the DPC with no drainage at all. 

[Bri44]

I`m wanting to know what is the correct way to fix this that meets building regs. I`ve been quoted two different fixes, one I don`t agree with.

 

Also, what would be the best type of company to quote for this work?

 

Apologies for all the questions, this has been ongoing for a year and I need to resolve it.

[Declan52]

That just needs ripped out.  It would take longer to patch up.  None of them joists are treated timber.  There is a real lack of fixings holding the joists to the posts,  maybe a single nail. 

Your looking at a joiner to get it done correct so it will last.  Some garden companies will do this type of work as well.  Some in your area might have a Facebook page where you can at least see pics from jobs plus comments and reviews from customers. 

[Bri44]

4 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

That just needs ripped out.  It would take longer to patch up.  None of them joists are treated timber.  There is a real lack of fixings holding the joists to the posts,  maybe a single nail. 

Your looking at a joiner to get it done correct so it will last.  Some garden companies will do this type of work as well.  Some in your area might have a Facebook page where you can at least see pics from jobs plus comments and reviews from customers. 

 

 

Thanks Declan.

 

Seeing that the deck is 40mm above the DPC, would you say cutting it back by 150mm would stop the damp problems?  I`ve read that splashback will cause damp unless the deck is 150mm below the DPC.

 

When you say ripped out, would you then reinstall at 150mm below DPC?

Edited April 12, 2019 by Bri44

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, Bri44 said:

I`m wanting to know what is the correct way to fix this that meets building regs. I`ve been quoted two different fixes, one I don`t agree with.

 

Also, what would be the best type of company to quote for this work?

 

Apologies for all the questions, this has been ongoing for a year and I need to resolve it.

 

As far as building regs are concerned I very much doubt this was notifiable work, so it's really a matter of looking for the best fix in terms of protecting your property from further degradation and making the decking area safe, usable and durable.

 

The normal guidance is for the ground level all around the house to be at least 150mm below the DPC, but this isn't mandatory, AFAIK, and there are lots of houses that have a higher ground level than this, without problems.  The significant point for your house is that it looks as if it may have a suspended ground floor, judging from the position of the airbricks.  With a suspended floor you would be well advised to stick to at least the 150mm below DPC rule, and ensure that all the air bricks are clear of obstructions.

 

It looks like a fair bit of the decking will have to come up, with the area of ply boarding that was under the artificial grass, and which looks to have rotted out, being replaced by something more suitable.  For this area I'd be inclined to look at lowering the level of the artificial grass and laying it on a new sub-base, not MOT1, as that won't drain very freely, but perhaps MOT3 with a whacked layer of coarse grit blinding.  If this was laid so that the surface of the artificial grass was around 150mm below DPC I think it would solve that particular problem, and be long-lasting and maintenance free.

 

The rest of the decking presents a few challenges.  Clearly there needs to be a strip of the underlying ground dug out around the house, to lower the ground level a bit, and ensure that there's good drainage, so that water can't sit close to the house.  There's no problem with having the decking cantilevered over the dug out area, as long as the decking supports can deal with this OK.  What you don't want is a gap between the decking and the wall of the house that's big enough to present a hazard, yet the dug out area around the house wall needs to be around 250mm wide to be effective, and needs to be able to drain freely, and not act like a big gutter.  The decking itself should be OK overhanging a gap this wide, and can be cut so that it's around 20 to 30mm clear of the wall of the house.  Where there are air bricks, I'd be inclined to ensure that there is a space above them in the decking, perhaps with some form of protection from someone getting their foot caught, so as to ensure that there's free air flow to them.

 

All this work is the sort of stuff that a decent landscaping/garden service company, or small general carpenter/joiner, could do without too much difficulty.  The biggest problem you are likely to have is finding someone who's reliable and will do a decent job.  In general, those who advertise on sites like Check a Trade etc are often those who are looking for work, and as a general rule of thumb the best people never need to look for work, as they pick up enough jobs by word of mouth (doesn't make it any easier to find them, though).

[Declan52]

22 minutes ago, Bri44 said:

 

 

Thanks Declan.

 

Seeing that the deck is 40mm above the DPC, would you say cutting it back by 150mm would stop the damp problems?  I`ve read that splashback will cause damp unless the deck is 150mm below the DPC.

 

When you say ripped out, would you then reinstall at 150mm below DPC?

Yeah the splash won't be helping.  

It will need dug down and rebuilt so it ends up 150mm below your dpc.  

To do the artifical grass correct you will need  a sub base of 150mm of  well compacted hard-core.  On top of that then you screed either sharp sand or quarry dust level.  Then you can roll out your grass.  The  sand / dust will mean it will drain and the  hard core means it won't sink.  You can't skimp on either of these steps.  

[Bri44]

23 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Thanks, JSHarris.

 

The problem I have. I bought a showhouse, was a bit of a mad rush.

 

The developer said cracks in render and damp are ok and that house was sold as seen so not their problem.

 

I got LABC involved, then the DRS who said it is a fault and needs fixing.

In their report, the DRS said a fix could be to cut the ground levels back by 150mm. Could be - being a suggestion, not a recommendation.

This has been ongoing for 14 months.

The developer sent out 4 separate contractors to quote, they all said rip out and lower.

Developer booked one in to do the work, he never turned up and I had to ring up to be told he cancelled after waiting in.

Now the developer is saying, our construction director says it does not need ripping out, a cut back of 150mm will fix the problem as Labc recommended in their report, even though their own contractors disagree. It was reported within the first two years.

Labc only said could be a fix,

I complained to DRS/LABC, they say its a deck, we can`t comment on cosmetic appearance, it's not anything to do with us the appearance of the deck.

So I say, well you should not have included a suggestion in your report as the developer is using that as your recommended fix.

 

So, I`m left with the developer wanting to simply cut it back and I`m saying this is not correct, it will still get damp problems and the 150mm cut out will cause a hazard.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Bri44

[Bri44]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

Yeah the splash won't be helping.  

It will need dug down and rebuilt so it ends up 150mm below your dpc.  

To do the artifical grass correct you will need  a sub base of 150mm of  well compacted hard-core.  On top of that then you screed either sharp sand or quarry dust level.  Then you can roll out your grass.  The  sand / dust will mean it will drain and the  hard core means of won't sink.  You can't skimp on either of these steps.  

 

This is what the developers 4 contractors all said but the developer wants to cut it back by 150mm only.

[Declan52]

Cutting it back won't stop you putting your foot through it again or the timber rotting. 

[Jeremy Harris]

12 minutes ago, Bri44 said:

Thanks, JSHarris.

 

The problem I have. I bought a showhouse, was a bit of a mad rush.

 

The developer said cracks in render and damp are ok and that house was sold as seen so not their problem.

 

I got LABC involved, then the DRS who said it is a fault and needs fixing.

In their report, the DRS said a fix could be to cut the ground levels back by 150mm. Could be - being a suggestion, not a recommendation.

This has been ongoing for 14 months.

The developer sent out 4 separate contractors to quote, they all said rip out and lower.

Developer booked one in to do the work, he never turned up and I had to ring up to be told he cancelled after waiting in.

Now the developer is saying, our construction director says it does not need ripping out, a cut back of 150mm will fix the problem as Labc recommended in their report, even though their own contractors disagree. It was reported within the first two years.

Labc only said could be a fix,

I complained to DRS/LABC, they say its a deck, we can`t comment on cosmetic appearance, it's not anything to do with us the appearance of the deck.

So I say, well you should not have included a suggestion in your report as the developer is using that as your recommended fix.

 

So, I`m left with the developer wanting to simply cut it back and I`m saying this is not correct, it will still get damp problems and the 150mm cut out will cause a hazard.

 

 

 

 

 

Good grief, I didn't realise this was a new build.   That's just bloody appalling work by a developer, and way below the expected standard of workmanship.  I thought, looking at the photos, that this was a bodged DIY job you were looking to put right.  Words fail me, as bad as mass housebuilders are, I'd not have thought they could do crap like this.

 

Given that the house had a warranty, it was definitely not sold as seen, as there's an obligation on the builder to put right defects for the first two years post completion, anyway.

[Bri44]

3 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Cutting it back won't stop you putting your foot through it again or the timber rotting. 

 

The developer is saying this is not their problem.

[Declan52]

2 minutes ago, Bri44 said:

 

The developer is saying this is not their problem.

How come they built the bloody deck.  What arse thought a deck with top that can't drain would last any length of time in the UK.  

Im with  Jeremy I thought you had bought this house and it was some  diy specialist joiner by day drunk by night type guy who built that.  

No such thing as sold as seen.  You get the same warranty that every other person on the site get. 

Plenty of people have used social media to apply pressure over bad workmanship but once you go down that route there's no going back.  

[Bri44]

2 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Good grief, I didn't realise this was a new build.   That's just bloody appalling work by a developer, and way below the expected standard of workmanship.  I thought, looking at the photos, that this was a bodged DIY job you were looking to put right.  Words fail me, as bad as mass housebuilders are, I'd not have thought they could do crap like this.

 

Given that the house had a warranty, it was definitely not sold as seen, as there's an obligation on the builder to put right defects for the first two years post completion, anyway.

 

 

My tenancy was ending. I wanted to buy somewhere I could move straight into without any decorating etc. Opted for the showhouse.

I pointed out faults before moving, sales team said all will be fixed, the house will be as good as new.

Moved in as had no other choice, added items not fixed to snag list. Head office then say, sorry, the house was sold as seen.

It does say sold as seen on order form. I asked about that, the sales team said that meant cooker, lights, fridge etc that were out of warranty were not covered, which I was ok with. Even their recommended solicitor said that's what they thought, fixtures and fittings. The developer had no terms and conditions to explain what sold as seen meant.

 

They stitched me up like a kipper and I`ve had to fight them for two years to get every little thing fixed. Had the roof replaced twice, leaked three times, scaffold up for 7 months, 

[Bri44]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

How come they built the bloody deck.  What arse thought a deck with top that can't drain would last any length of time in the UK.  

Im with  Jeremy I thought you had bought this house and it was some  diy specialist joiner by day drunk by night type guy who built that.  

No such thing as sold as seen.  You get the same warranty that every other person on the site get. 

Plenty of people have used social media to apply pressure over bad workmanship but once you go down that route there's no going back.  

 

 

 They just made it look nice, it is not even level. Water pools up on deck. 

[Bri44]

What the damp and downpipes look like when I don`t clean it.

 

This was shortly after moving in. the developer cut the deck back by 2 inches as it was flush against the render. Then they put a layer of gravel on top of the spars to try and make it look acceptable. The site manager was explaining this to me the day I moved in saying, the building inspector would not sign off until we cut this back.  

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Bri44

[Jeremy Harris]

If it were me then I'd start getting serious on social media, the TV shows that name and shame crap builders, any media story about crap builders (Taylor Wimpey seem the flavour of the week, makes a change from Persimmon, who are usually the crap builders that get the most flak).

 

The house will have had a 2 year warranty from the builder, plus another 8 years after than from NHBC, that covers construction defects.  This is, without any doubt, a collection of really bad construction defects.

 

To fight this will need getting an expert opinion, then pursuing the builder, or NHBC, for redress.  NHBC are a PITA in my personal experience, but if you persist you may well win.  It really comes down to how much stamina you have, as these bastards rely on being able to delay things, and be so obstructive, that people give up.

[Bri44]

3 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

If it were me then I'd start getting serious on social media, the TV shows that name and shame crap builders, any media story about crap builders (Taylor Wimpey seem the flavour of the week, makes a change from Persimmon, who are usually the crap builders that get the most flak).

 

The house will have had a 2 year warranty from the builder, plus another 8 years after than from NHBC, that covers construction defects.  This is, without any doubt, a collection of really bad construction defects.

 

To fight this will need getting an expert opinion, then pursuing the builder, or NHBC, for redress.  NHBC are a PITA in my personal experience, but if you persist you may well win.  It really comes down to how much stamina you have, as these bastards rely on being able to delay things, and be so obstructive, that people give up.

 

 

It is LABC my warranty provider.

I have been fighting them for 2 years. 

They deny everything is a fault. they have dragged these faults out for over a year, that Labc said they have to fix.

I have cracked floor tiles they promised would be fixed, only for them to say sorry, it is cosmetic and sold as seen.

 

So they are wanting to do a fix by simply cutting the decking and grass back saying this meets the technical requirements of the LABC manual. 

 

I`m saying, this will not cure the damp.