Tiling Onto Damp Wall

[Onoff]

Mate's rented place. He wants to fit a new bath & re-tile. He's stripped the tiles above the bath and reckons there were some hollow tiles and that the blocks behind are damp. First couple of tiles were a bitch to get off, rest more or less fell off.

 

This is an external wall. Brick facade externally. He can't access that to check any mortar joints as a neighbouring glass roof. At this point he doesn't know whether the damp is coming through from outside or has penetrated through the tiles. They do have a shower handset in the bath so this wall (the tiles) get wet. Tbh my money is on the tiles letting water through:

 

He has a working Envirovent in there. Flat roof above that has been repaired. His plan is to overboard. I've told hin to use moisture resistant, (green).

 

Before:

 

 

With the tiles removed:

 

 

 

He's already bought the new tiles & bath. If he hadn't I might have suggested "multipanel" type board.

 

My gut feel is to tank the wall with Everbuild Aquaseal but will it stick to damp walls?

 

Is there anything else he could use? I remember using a liquid dpm from Wickes you applied in two coats. The second one you threw sand at to give a key.

 

Does he need to "stabilise" the walls in any way?

 

One option is that I have an unused tube of Feb Blue Grit he's welcome to. This is made by Everbuild who make Aquaseal tanking membrane and tbh, other than the grit in it the blue liquid element looks and smells the same.

 

At the mo he's just cleared the debris and rigged a temporary shower curtain so they can continue using the shower.

 

Any suggestions for him to move forward. 

 

Cheers

Edited April 9, 2019 by Onoff

[ProDave]

What a sorry state. Condensation and mould heaven.

 

It looks like a very poorly insulated very poorly ventilated bathroom.

 

Is the property occupied? (I hope not for the tenants sake)

 

First thing is ventilate well and use a dehumidifier to dry the whole lot out. While you are doing that scrape and scrub that lousy ceiling to get back to something sold and clean as apart from the tiles you will be renovating that ceiling.

 

If it dries out okay and remains dry go ahead and re tile after making good any rotten plaster.  If it remains damp you really have to find the problem.

 

And ensure the place is heated and ventilated properly.  The only times we had issues was when the tenant was too tight to turn the heating on, and turned the fan off.  Tip: Rental properties should NEVER have a fan isolator switch, that just invites the tenant to turn it off.

 

If it is a problem room due to poor insulation consider a single room mvhr.

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Is the property occupied? (I hope not for the tenants sake)

 

Occupied? Him the missus & 4 daughters currently using this!

[Ferdinand]

Anything except sorting the wall properly is a sticky-plaster, and asking for dry-rot.

 

As it is, he may already be requiring an upgrade under building regs.

[ProDave]

So is he the tenant?  you said rental property?

 

Shouldn't the landlord be sorting this?

[Onoff]

15 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So is he the tenant?  you said rental property?

 

Shouldn't the landlord be sorting this?

 

Housing assoc. apparenty. Not too good it seems so he's taken it upon himself to sort.

[Ferdinand]

If it is rented, and LL is sitting on their hands, then he needs the EHO in.

 

If he has already demolished his landlord's bathroom, then presumably he is in breach, and possibly in a hole he has dug.

 

Ouch.

[ProDave]

32 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Housing assoc. apparenty. Not too good it seems so he's taken it upon himself to sort.

He could just claim the tiles fell off the wall one night with a big clatter. 

 

Agree he has dug himself a big hole.  HA should have been informed about the problem LONG ago, as soon as he noticed a hollow sounding tile.

[Onoff]

19 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

If it is rented, and LL is sitting on their hands, then he needs the EHO in.

 

If he has already demolished his landlord's bathroom, then presumably he is in breach, and possibly in a hole he has dug.

 

Ouch.

 

I'm doing all I can to help him sort it asap without actually going there!

 

Flat roof above the ceiling he's just said. Was asphalt but repaired a while back (and painted silver). Tenant above has potted plants on it, so much it looks like Epping Forest to quote him.

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

He could just claim the tiles fell off the wall one night with a big clatter. 

 

Agree he has dug himself a big hole.  HA should have been informed about the problem LONG ago, as soon as he noticed a hollow sounding tile.

 

I believe they have been round and made various promises but nothing's happened. I'd like to think he has written correspondence of it all but likely not. 

 

I've a small dehumidifier I can lend him.

 

He reckons the vent unit is a single room MVHR but I have my doubts on that. 

[Ferdinand]

OK. being more constructive.

 

The obvious thing is to fess up and try to have a sensible conversation, or put it all back and then call in the LL.

 

If he wants a dehumidifier I would recommend on of these as a good but small commercial one. This is the smaller one of the two I have

https://www.broughtoneap.co.uk/products/dehumidifiers/

 

New they are about £400 for the smallest so for a LL with no dehumidifier it should be easy to justify.

 

That at least should let him see if it comes back.

 

His other alternative is to tank and then dryline, then tile.

 

Or can he do it, then get the LL onto the roof.

 

If he wants a one room HR,fan, then it will go in the same hole in the wall as a normal fan and cost about £150.

 

Relevant q: How long is he staying there, and what sort of tenancy is it? Secure or AST?

 

F

Edited April 9, 2019 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

I don't know the rules of a HA tenancy.  a LONG time ago I had school friends in council houses and it seemed normal for the council tenant to fit a new kitchen or re fit a bathroom, and look after all the decorating. So what do the HA rules say these days?

[Ferdinand]

Does he have a second shower or bathroom?

 

IMO the sensible outcome would be for the HA to sort out the problem, and him to make a suitable contribution, rather than try to bodge and get away with it.

 

As A LL I would cut such a deal with my Ts and do so quite often, but that requires basic trust on both sides.

 

eg One T last month wanted to paint the black wooden doors of her kitchen grey, and I gave her a day of handyman time and some advice. From my point of view it extends the life of the kitchen by 5-6 years.

 

F

 

 

[Onoff]

Tbh 6 people using this to shower and proper ventilation is a must which is stating the obvious!

 

(Reminds me I must sort out my bathroom venting not that we're using the wet room corner yet. Oddly enough  I want to do something "different"  ).

[ProDave]

This highlights just how utterly rubbish a huge amount of UK housing stock is. Poorly (or no) insulated walls poor heating and poor ventilation.  Add tenants who scrimp on the heating and disable the fan because it is noisy (if they can) and it's easy to understand "damp" and "mould" issues.

 

Our previous house still running as a B&B and with reasonably well insulated walls and ceilings has no condensation or damp issues, and no there are not any fan isolator switches so the fan comes on with the light and cannot be disabled. And the showers get a fair bit of use.

 

Gut the room, dry it out, insulate it (internal insulation) re board and re fit a new bathroom in the now slightly smaller room, is about the only solution.  Just hope the landlord does it a bit quicker than @Onoff

 

Not many landlords will do that, so it just gets patched up again and again..........

[Mr Punter]

Strip all the crap from the walls. Cut out the crap bit of ceiling and replace with MR board. Dry the room properly for a couple of weeks. Fit an extractor with a timer wired to light and set the overrun to 20mins. Use the blue grit on the walls after they have properly dried. Re-tile with cement based adhesive from a bag. Grout to finish.

[Onoff]

VIDEO of the fan, clearly not mvhr! Guess is they shower and some in the house, not all, just don't bother to switch it on. 

 

 

There's the left hand wall where the shower riser is and taps below. Tiles are stuck pretty fast here except the ones low down by the taps. 

 

 

This is a VIDEO of the main wall over the bath:

 

 

Then the right hand wall, tiles are stuck fast.

 

 

If it's brick outside and blocks on the inner leaf my guess is the damp and tiles lifting issue is purely down to lack of ventilation and the constant spray on that wall over the years.

 

What in the way of insulation could he line that wall with? Battens and 50mm pir like I've done?

[Onoff]

I suggested battens with 50mm pir in between then mrpb over the top. Would bring the main wall out by about 65mm. He's worried though this would put the bath too close to the rad valve:

 

 

I therefore suggested maybe raking the bath panel in at the bottom like I've done on mine.

 

Got to admit I'd be taking that ceiling down to see if it's wet from the flat roof above.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Onoff

[Onoff]

13 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Does he have a second shower or bathroom?

 

No just this one.

[Ferdinand]

8 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

No just this one.

 

So time is of the essence.

 

The other idea I have is to stick a modular bathroom in there ie cubicle that just needs service connections, whilst he addresses it.

 

My only other idea is a DMEV fan with trickle setting ... from about £70 or so. But that is just another sticky Plaster.

 

And that is me out of ideas.

 

F

[ProDave]

That wall on the long bath edge is soaking.  It needs stripping and some time with the dehumidifier to see if it dries out.  It might be wet from the shower leaking through failed grout, it might be wet from something else above or the other side of the wall (is that an outside wall or party wall)

 

I have seen people carry on using a shower in this state during renovation by hanging a shower curtain or 2 up the wall while showering then take it down to allow the room to breathe and dry out.

 

If it does not dry out then it is a building problem and he has the "fun" of explaining to the HA the present state of it..........

[Onoff]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

That wall on the long bath edge is soaking.  It needs stripping and some time with the dehumidifier to see if it dries out.  It might be wet from the shower leaking through failed grout, it might be wet from something else above or the other side of the wall (is that an outside wall or party wall)

 

I have seen people carry on using a shower in this state during renovation by hanging a shower curtain or 2 up the wall while showering then take it down to allow the room to breathe and dry out.

 

If it does not dry out then it is a building problem and he has the "fun" of explaining to the HA the present state of it..........

 

He has rigged a temporary shower curtain.

[Onoff]

I have this Humidex 7 dehumidifier I got as a freebie years ago. Still works fine (or did). I wonder if this would be suitable for him? Too heavy though for me to train it up to him. HSS want £130 a week hire at a quick glance for a dehumifier. Spec on this I think is 10 litres per day:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Onoff

[Onoff]

Update. He's had a builder mate come around and look at the walls. Consensus is that the damp is where the water from the showering has gotten through the grout lines and behind.

 

Wright or wrong he "primed" the whole area with 2 coats of Mapei Primer G. Applied it late on Monday.

 

 

Prior to this he hacked off the loose plaster in the area circled below:

 

 

When the Mapei Primer G dry to the touch he's "filled / skimmed" with this stuff - just really the area circled above:

 

 

 

Says as of this morning it's dried everywhere but on the "blackjacked" areas it's still damp /cold.

 

 

The tiles for the wall he has are porcelain, 600x600x8.5 (9.5?)

 

He's considering saying "f*** it" and boarding with Aqua Panel/Wedi boards etc. Couldn't he just Aqua Seal tank the whole lot and get the tiles on? Says it's all pretty flush holding the spirit against it.

 

Any thoughts on how he can best get a surface ready to tile on that will take the tile weight and how to fix whatever to the wall behind?

 

Cheers

Edited April 17, 2019 by Onoff

[Mr Punter]

I think the 600 x 600 are a good call as there won't be too many grout lines. 

 

The corners are often the weak points. I think some of the tanking systems have tape that you can use. Make sure everything is completely dry before tanking.