MikeGrahamT21 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Came across this a while ago in the Grand Designs Magazine, a UK designed battery storage system, currently they only sell 2 and 3kwh systems, with the 3kwh being about £3900 fully installed, and they're launching a 4.8kwh soon, which is the capacity i was thinking would be about right, though I dread to think how much that would be, maybe £5 or £6k? Normally, these would be a big no no in terms of return on investment for the usual 10 year warranty, however these units firstly support the grid share incentive, which gives £50 per year for 3 years, then a percentage (which would likely be next to nothing), and more importantly if you sign up to grid share, they will give you an lifetime warranty for the battery, which somewhat changes things a little? The only thing is, what they class as 'lifetime' and that i'm not sure about. What do you think, worth it or not? Or would it be better going for a much cheaper system with the same capacity, as you can get this capacity for around £3k now, with self install. I asked for a quote a while back, and they do pester quite a lot, which is a bit of a put off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Seems a bit pricey at £3.9k for 3 kWh (about £1,300/kWh), as you can buy a 9.6 kWh system (with a 10 year warranty) for around £4k + VAT (so around £500/kWh) or a 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall 2 for around £6,500 + VAT (so around £580/kWh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 I agree, it is very expensive. According to the blurb, the warranty lasts as long as you are a member of grid share, so potentially forever. Obviously grid share can drain your battery too for others benefit, which could be seen as a negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: I agree, it is very expensive. According to the blurb, the warranty lasts as long as you are a member of grid share, so potentially forever. Obviously grid share can drain your battery too for others benefit, which could be seen as a negative. That would be a big negative if there was none left for you that evening. I would want to know how much per KWh they pay you for what they take. Remember, self using it saves you about 14p per KWh. I suspect they pay you a lot less than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 more than likely, as i say in first three years they say its fixed at £50 a year, thereafter its a percentage (50% i think) of the profits they make out of doing it, so I suspect its very low. Trade off is unlimited warranty. Just wondered what peoples take was on this as its a little different to some of the other offerings. There is one I got recommended a while ago which is the LUX AC storage with Pylontech batteries, around £3400 for 4.8kwh all in, self install, and this also has the gridshare incentive option available, but doesn't give any extra warranty, just the standard 10 years. I wonder if people will start selling extended warranties for the batteries. Or maybe it would be very unlucky to have one break?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Regarding the amount of stored energy needed, then I've worked on the basis that I need around double the storage capacity required to handle our mean daily peak rate consumption on a cloudy day, which is roughly 4 kWh, so 8 kWh of storage seems a reasonable minimum. I've costed up the benefit from being able to use either stored excess PV generation in summer, or stored off-peak rate electricity during peak rate times in winter, to come up with the annual saving we could make from investing in battery storage. I cannot make the sums add up for the cheapest system available, over the warranty period of 10 years, even assuming that I wouldn't have received any return from investing that capital in a savings account . What swings it for me, in favour of installing battery storage, is the ability to use the UPS output from the inverter/charger in order to provide backup power during power cuts. Power cuts are fairly frequent here, and a nuisance in an all-electric house, so there is a value to us in having the ability to power some essential circuits during them, and that swings the balance in favour of battery storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: There is one I got recommended a while ago which is the LUX AC storage with Pylontech batteries, around £3400 for 4.8kwh all in, self install, and this also has the gridshare incentive option available, but doesn't give any extra warranty, just the standard 10 years. I wonder if people will start selling extended warranties for the batteries. Or maybe it would be very unlucky to have one break?? Looking at the current prices on the web, an inverter/charger with 9.6 kWh of battery storage, and a 10 year warranty on the inverter/charger and batteries, seems to be around £4k + VAT and a 4.8 kWh system around £2.7k + VAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 I dont think it works at all in terms of ROI at present. Power cuts would be a big benefit, and then the only other thing is the warm fuzzy feeling you get from self consumption, but I guess all you are doing is paying for the electricity up front. We would still need a grid connection, and maybe only achieve a 75% overall reduction, so 25% from grid plus the standing charge, but it would somewhat protect from price rises. I'm waiting to see what contract i end up on in October, see how much its gone up, as at the moment we are on 11p/kwh which is pretty cheap really. It all depends how much prices rise, anything above 19p/kwh for us would land a profit over the 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 There is a similar type of scheme available from EDF but I’m not sure who would choose to pay thousands of pounds for EDF to use your stored energy for the benefit of others. That’s how I read it anyway. https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/battery-storage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 To my mind, peak demand is early evening mostly. So when are they most likely to draw on your betteries? yes early evening. When are YOU most likely to draw on your batteries, well early evening or after dark. But if they have already been discharged, tough you will have to import and pay full price. I would only begin to consider such a scheme of they paid the full retail price for what they "bought" from you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 50 minutes ago, ProDave said: I would only begin to consider such a scheme of they paid the full retail price for what they "bought" from you. Me too. I think these schemes are really taking advantage of those who don't know when their peak rate demand is or what impact that may have on using battery storage. I can load shift some things in the house, like heating, hot water boost charging, the washing machine and charging my car, so these are on during the off-peak period in winter, when we're not generating much from the PV array. Having said that my car has been charging for most of today at the equivalent of about 20mph only from excess PV - it's really clear and bright today, probably the best total generation day we've had so far this year. I can't load shift the evening peak from cooking, no matter what, so we'd always need enough battery capacity, and inverter power, to meet that peak demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I can't load shift the evening peak from cooking, no matter what, so we'd always need enough battery capacity, and inverter power, to meet that peak demand. Have you tried going cold turkey? (Not this evening as an intimate supper is mandated for valentines day.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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