My planning application and appeal

[Wilkobury]

Hi guys,

 

After going to ebuild and finding that it was closed, I managed to find you all again. My last post link below gives the background to my case.

 

http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/19183-which-drawings-will-the-inspector-determine-on/

 

I got the appeal decision yesterday and the Inspector decided to dismiss our appeal, in summary:

 

1. Inspector said he could not rule on revision A drawings as the LPA had not issued them to third parties for comment.

2. Insepctor said that he could not comment on revision A drawings as it would fetter the LPA's discretion in any future applications.

 

The reason he dismissed our appeal was the scale and mass of the proposal (which we had dealt with in revision A, but of course, he did not decide on that and would not comment). He concluded that there was no harm to neighbouring properties, but stated that there was harm to the conservation area in terms of the "environmental dimensions" (I don't know what this means?)

 

The LPA had already told us that they would refuse our revision A drawings for exactly the same reasons as the original submission hence why we didn't go for a resubmission when they refused and went straight to appeal asking the PINS to rule on revision A.

 

I understand that the PINS decision is final and I don't intend to go to the High Court. I spoke to PINS customer services this morning and the advisor was very helpful. She said that I can write to their quality team with any queries that I have, but she cannot tell me whether I will get a response to my questions.

 

I am considering whether I should use my free re-submission to resubmit the revision A drawings (so they can go out to third parties), but the LPA already made their mind up to refuse these when they told us they would have refused for the same reasons. I submitted my appeal on 31 Jan and got the decision yesterday (11 August). It's a long process.

 

Am I likely to get anymore out of the PINS?

 

Do I have a case against the LPA for Malpractice since they gave me an Extension of Time to consider my revised plans and then ignored it?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

[IanR]

Is there not a compromise that can be found that both the LPA and you will be happy with?

 

Battling with the LPA and "the system" is time consuming and expensive.

[Wilkobury]

I wish there was, Ian. We have been trying to compromise with them for four years. They were very helpful during the first pre-app, but their stance changed after locals put lots of objections in at the first full application (due to the positions within the Local Council of some of the objectors perhaps...)

 

We've tried to compromise with the locals also, but they do not want to speak as they only want to see the existing house replaced, not an additional dwelling.

 

The frustrating thing was, more than one of the LPA's officers told me it was big enough for two detached at the first pre-app and they even drew what would be acceptable to put in for planning!

[joe90]

I have been fighting my LPA for two years just to replace a burnt down bungalow with a cottage ( same number of bedrooms), also waiting for an appeal decision which should be made by early September ( filed in April this year) they have just told me they have started my case ( 4 months late) and a decision should be made by early November. That will be yet another summer wasted. 

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, Wilkobury said:

Hi guys,

 

After going to ebuild and finding that it was closed, I managed to find you all again. My last post link below gives the background to my case.

 

http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/19183-which-drawings-will-the-inspector-determine-on/

 

I got the appeal decision yesterday and the Inspector decided to dismiss our appeal, in summary:

 

1. Inspector said he could not rule on revision A drawings as the LPA had not issued them to third parties for comment.

2. Insepctor said that he could not comment on revision A drawings as it would fetter the LPA's discretion in any future applications.

 

The reason he dismissed our appeal was the scale and mass of the proposal (which we had dealt with in revision A, but of course, he did not decide on that and would not comment). He concluded that there was no harm to neighbouring properties, but stated that there was harm to the conservation area in terms of the "environmental dimensions" (I don't know what this means?)

 

The LPA had already told us that they would refuse our revision A drawings for exactly the same reasons as the original submission hence why we didn't go for a resubmission when they refused and went straight to appeal asking the PINS to rule on revision A.

 

I understand that the PINS decision is final and I don't intend to go to the High Court. I spoke to PINS customer services this morning and the advisor was very helpful. She said that I can write to their quality team with any queries that I have, but she cannot tell me whether I will get a response to my questions.

 

I am considering whether I should use my free re-submission to resubmit the revision A drawings (so they can go out to third parties), but the LPA already made their mind up to refuse these when they told us they would have refused for the same reasons. I submitted my appeal on 31 Jan and got the decision yesterday (11 August). It's a long process.

 

Am I likely to get anymore out of the PINS?

 

Do I have a case against the LPA for Malpractice since they gave me an Extension of Time to consider my revised plans and then ignored it?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

There is a 2% chance I may be off beam here if my assumptions are wrong, but...

 

The PINS don't decide Planning Applications; they rule on the validity Planning Decisions taken (or not taken in time) by LPAs by applying Planning Law, Precedent, Policy and Practice.

 

My initial reaction is that someone has misdirected you in telling you that you can go to Appeal with an amended scheme, which has not been considered by the Council. It can happen but is truly exceptional.

 

It looks to me that your Appeal has been rejected when the Planning Inspector ran into the first impact of your decision to try and appeal using an amended scheme, which should have gone to the Council and been rejected first before being eligible for Appeal.

Surely by definition you cannot Appeal a decision which has not been allowed to be made?

 

Unless you meet the conditions for an exception to the rule, which in my opinion would have required expert planning advice.

 

Whether that can be done is governed by something called the Wheatcroft Principle.

 

See Section 3.1 and Appendix M of this document:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/544036/Procedural_Guide_Planning_appeals_v8_0.pdf

 

And this for an example of how Planning Consultants think they can use (= usually exploit / manipulate) it to get an Appeal by making just enough changes:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/544036/Procedural_Guide_Planning_appeals_v8_0.pdf

 

IMO, not having followed normal procedure, your potential claim is likely to be against whoever advised you to Appeal with an altered scheme.

 

Unless it was a valid exception to the normal process.

 

Of course, you could use your free resubmission (timescale limit?) as a way to get a new Appeal, but if you do not have the expertise yoruself, get some advice if you have not already done so. A new Planning App refused would be a new Appeal and a new Case.

 

My sympathy, but you probably tried to use the process in an inappropriate way.

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 12, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

And a big welcome.

[Gone West]

Wilkobury, if it were me I would resubmit revision A to the LPA and ask them after a few weeks what they intend to do. When they say they will refuse the application ask your local councillor for their support. Go through the whole process with the councillor and ask them to put it to the Planning Committee. It will require you or a representative to speak for three minutes outlining your case to the committee. I also hand delivered a copy of my plans and details to each member of the planning committee a week before the hearing. It worked for me after my appeal was refused and might be worth a try. Good luck.

[Ferdinand]

32 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Wilkobury, if it were me I would resubmit revision A to the LPA and ask them after a few weeks what they intend to do. When they say they will refuse the application ask your local councillor for their support. Go through the whole process with the councillor and ask them to put it to the Planning Committee. It will require you or a representative to speak for three minutes outlining your case to the committee. I also hand delivered a copy of my plans and details to each member of the planning committee a week before the hearing. It worked for me after my appeal was refused and might be worth a try. Good luck.

+1.

 

One strategy that might work.

[Wilkobury]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks very much for the feedback. I wrote and led the appeal, so the buck stops with me.

 

I am considering resubmitting using my free go and also looking at other options.

 

Unfortunately, my local Councillor is one of the objectors. There is a strong nimby contingent. 

[Wilkobury]

Guys,

 

One further question. Has anyone got any experience of making a formal complaint about their LPA to the Local Government Ombudsman? I have received some advice that this may be another route to take as there may have been Malpractice by the LPA when making the decision.

 

What are the positives and negatives? Could I be awarded costs from the Ombudsman?

[Temp]

Now that your appeal has been rejected the locals will be wondering what you plan to do with the land. There are plenty of travellers looking for plots of land going cheap. Would the neighbours prefer that to Rev A?

 

 

[Gone West]

11 hours ago, Wilkobury said:

Guys,

 

One further question. Has anyone got any experience of making a formal complaint about their LPA to the Local Government Ombudsman? I have received some advice that this may be another route to take as there may have been Malpractice by the LPA when making the decision.

 

What are the positives and negatives? Could I be awarded costs from the Ombudsman?

 

Again I tried exactly that approach but without success. It is a very good way of winding up the Chief Executive and Head of Planning and Development though, but caused me even more grief with my application. I think only a very small proportion of complaints against planning are upheld.

[Ferdinand]

On complaining about Councils, it is a long process that will probably take a year or more in toto.

There's an analogy with PP, in that you have to go through the local process first before complaining to the regulatory body. The formal process is something like - complaining to Customer Services Section, then to Head of the relevant Service, then to the Ombudsman. They will probably (never done it) want you to have discussed it with the Planning Officer, and manager of the Officer first.

 

Each Council has its own process (though there will be a template somewhere), which can be accessed via gov.uk:

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-your-council

 

There *is* provision for compensation at national level in some form, but I don't know if it covers eg consequential loss. It might be tempting to try the Small Claims Court if it is a clear cut case, but I have *no* idea if that has ever worked.

 

There are other routes, such as your MP etc.

 

I would say spend your legal / complaints budget on expert planning advice for your second submission, so that you cover as many angles as possible.

 

There are some ideas about selecting a Planning Consultants or advisers on the thread linked below. You need a proven successful record for cases very like yours, and intimate knowledge of your local council. You also need to know their role and your role, to have a very careful brief, knowledge of what your total budget for the process will be to each stage, probably a cap on the Consultant's time / budget, and I'd use a fixed price success fee on top.

 

For your own use it may also help to write down what circumstances will make you consider walking away to avoid "Dog and Bone" syndrome.

 

You can get free advice from the Planning Aid service of the Royal Town Planning Institute, but make yoruself aware of teh types of questions they can answer.

http://www.rtpi.org.uk/planning-aid/

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 13, 2016 by Ferdinand