Help with kitchen renovation/ 1st house.

[Onoff]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Actually the little assh8les I can hear munching my expandifoam gaps in my main room ceiling (three 5 ft x 1" gaps around room edges, next to ceiling beams, that like the wall voids on 1st floor go right up to loft/ so another few cold-into-house places I filled.. weirdly, even this job was to no obvious benefits too!! because, so much of an enormous influx of cold is generated A. up from floor, B. in via thick stone walls, & C. down/ in from the 1st floor wall voids at room peripheries, that, hopefully your rockwool idea will at least address C). 

 

So they do like it. Onoff is right. Its infuriating too- but what could I do? I just had to fill these gaps.

 

 

 

I've never had one chew through pb.  Too "drying" in their mouth I believe. I have though had them chew up through a flooring grade chipboard floor where there was a slight gap and they could get purchase. Also up through a timber floor board  (& carpet) at the gap.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Onoff

[newhome]

I'd be getting anywhere in that house that I could (loft, ceilings etc) and lobbing those plastic packets of rat bait up there. Death to all vermin! ? ? ?

[zoothorn]

Indeed so. But down the list of things to do- I don't like poison either (they die/ that smell is awful) so rather live trap-em. Then I'll sling'em twds my assh8le n'bours.

[zoothorn]

@Onoff your last post didn't show up/ can you redo? Ive put the 6x pir sheet job on hold to see if there is s'thing I can do 1st to prevent mice.

[newhome]

Well you can do that and stick snapper traps up there, or just stick some bait stations outside the house in the hope that they bugger off and die somewhere outside. I’ve always used bait as it happens and have never yet had a stinking rotting smell anywhere in either this house or the last one where the barstewards were in the loft. Might just have been lucky I guess. 

[PeterW]

Mice can eat their way through pretty much anything - plasterboard included. The only way to stop them is using mesh. Embedding stainless mesh into foam works well - cheap dish scouring pads work and just fluff them up a bit before you do. 

[zoothorn]

I could do the bait then, if you didn't find the smell an issue.. tho all others I know who use it have the smell issue. Maybe your bait works differently or your scotch mice have more manners & trot off s'where outside to rip- what do you recommend?

[Onoff]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Onoff your last post didn't show up/ can you redo? Ive put the 6x pir sheet job on hold to see if there is s'thing I can do 1st to prevent mice.

 

Think I've given you a bum steer here...you're going to fill the whole lot with layers of 25mm pir?

 

I was envisaging an insulated wall front and back and a big gap in between. 

 

I'd just introduce a layer of pb in there cut as close round the wires and pipes as you can.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Mice can eat their way through pretty much anything - plasterboard included. The only way to stop them is using mesh. Embedding stainless mesh into foam works well - cheap dish scouring pads work and just fluff them up a bit before you do. 

 

Ive got wire wool I bought laods of, for a reason I have absolutely no idea. finally a use!

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Mice can eat their way through pretty much anything - plasterboard included. The only way to stop them is using mesh. Embedding stainless mesh into foam works well - cheap dish scouring pads work and just fluff them up a bit before you do. 

 

Didn't we link to Wilko stainless scourers before on this thread when he did his kitchen waste?

 

Make sure the stainless scourer is insulated from the copper pipes (I would). Rat pi$$ will be a great electrolyte.

 

Honestly, here they've gone through chipboard, flooring and ordinary grades. Solid timber, roofers felt and hardboard but never pb. Growing up on Tom & Jerry I've always hankered after a proper, cartoon mouse hole!

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Think I've given you a bum steer here...you're going to fill the whole lot with layers of 25mm pir?

 

I was envisaging an insulated wall front and back and a big gap in between. 

 

I'd just introduce a layer of pb in there cut as close round the wires and pipes as you can.

 

I had this very idea sketched out, but PeterW said no need for block.. just wood frame/ 3 or 4x 50mm of pir/ wood frame. A helluva lot easier for me than doing blockwork, especially around these very tricky pipe/ cable interruptions.. even if I do this I -still- would have gaps around pipes & cables to foam-fill, I couldn't mortar these surely esp around copper pipes.

 

Ok What I'll do is get in loft, & pB the frame backside. Later. I can check the brown fluff's spread properly, & set mice bait maybe once up.

[zoothorn]

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Think I've given you a bum steer here...you're going to fill the whole lot with layers of 25mm pir?

 

I was envisaging an insulated wall front and back and a big gap in between. 

 

I'd just introduce a layer of pb in there cut as close round the wires and pipes as you can.

 

You think 7x 1" pir between wood frames, with brown fluff back on a pB backside.. won't be sufficiently insulated?

 

me 'ole is wxh 20" x 20". Wall thickness 30". Its these pipes/ cables onoff.. they just prevent me coming forward any further than 6x 1" pir's as I need a frame to finish this side. If you look at the myriad of pipes etc its a real nightmare to block up the further fwd I come.

 

So that's 3x 50mm thick pir

[Onoff]

16 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

I had this very idea sketched out, but PeterW said no need for block.. just wood frame/ 3 or 4x 50mm of pir/ wood frame. A helluva lot easier for me than doing blockwork, especially around these very tricky pipe/ cable interruptions.. even if I do this I -still- would have gaps around pipes & cables to foam-fill, I couldn't mortar these surely esp around copper pipes.

 

Ok What I'll do is get in loft, & pB the frame backside. Later. I can check the brown fluff's spread properly, & set mice bait maybe once up.

 

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

You think 7x 1" pir between wood frames, with brown fluff back on a pB backside.. won't be sufficiently insulated?

 

me 'ole is wxh 20" x 20". Wall thickness 30". Its these pipes/ cables onoff.. they just prevent me coming forward any further than 6x 1" pir's as I need a frame to finish this side. If you look at the myriad of pipes etc its a real nightmare to block up the further fwd I come.

 

So that's 3x 50mm thick pir

 

We're talking at cross purposes again! Imo what you're doing is fine. When I say "insulated wall" I mean a wooden frame just like you've done. I was thinking you're having two of these frames, one at the back of the original stone wall and one at the front with a bfo void in between.

 

Don't make me sketch it!

 

Carry on as you are.

[newhome]

28 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I could do the bait then, if you didn't find the smell an issue.. tho all others I know who use it have the smell issue. Maybe your bait works differently or your scotch mice have more manners & trot off s'where outside to rip- what do you recommend?

 

I just buy this one. Comes in little plastic bags sealed up that they chew through (just like they chew through every bloody thing else). I just lob them where I need to (corners of loft etc). Have used the loose bait too. 

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Cleaning+%26+Pest+Control/d260/Pest+Control/sd3217/Pest-Stop+Mouse+%26+Rat+Killer/p85490

 

Lived in the SE of England before here and they've killed Scottish and English mice. I have no experience of Welsh though 

 

 

[zoothorn]

I'm a bit confused about the foam tbh. Told the best way to fix in the frame, is with foam (seems so- damn solid). And the only way to fill the holes, as tight as I can make them, is surely foam too unless I'm mistaken here (but I can't think of a more perfect use for expandi foam than such small channels to fill).

 

So how can you mitigate against mice getting at the foam @ the whole of the frame periphery.. & the pipe/ cable channels?

 

I recall the idea suggested of using metal scoures along with the Mikey- Minnie hole for my sink waste pipe exit.. but that was a mortar job, not foam.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

25 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I'm a bit confused about the foam tbh. Told the best way to fix in the frame, is with foam (seems so- damn solid). And the only way to fill the holes, as tight as I can make them, is surely foam too unless I'm mistaken here (but I can't think of a more perfect use for expandi foam than such small channels to fill).

 

So how can you mitigate against mice getting at the foam @ the whole of the frame periphery.. & the pipe/ cable channels?

 

I recall the idea suggested of using metal scoures along with the Mikey- Minnie hole for my sink waste pipe exit.. but that was a mortar job, not foam.

 

 

 

 

Mortar, foam, silicone... doesn’t matter what you squidge through the scourer reinforcing ....

[zoothorn]

Ok you think wire wool will be similar/ any reason why I couldn't use this can you think of?

[Onoff]

31 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok you think wire wool will be similar/ any reason why I couldn't use this can you think of?

 

As long as it won't rust...

[zoothorn]

Ah. Just as I was about to foam it in.. so, those dish scourers you point to don't rust?

[Onoff]

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ah. Just as I was about to foam it in.. so, those dish scourers you point to don't rust?

 

No as they are stainless steel. And I'll say it again keep whatever wire/wool scourer away from the copper pipes. Just wrap the pipes in plastic.

[zoothorn]

soudal schmoudal.. cannae get the hang of it! but if I can get it working it does last/ goes on for ages.. I must say that. pir 'wad' done/ setting.

 

Got in loft to check out the backside of frame plan/ sealing up for mice. Gonna pB [] onto my frame, & just mortar up the gaps where foam visible (I like mortar v.satisfying/ tactile!). God its mice central in this loft tho/ horrible job- they all sleep in here after nipping thru me' ole to munch xyz.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

A separate Q re the wind howling away behind my upstairs beds1/2 plasterboard (& it is pB, not asbestos! I can see an edge: so pB quality back then ~80's approx, was way better than modern stuff then.. unless it 'sets' over time harder).

 

Q. Ive hinted at this q before: in a building with 2 block courses, & cavity between, & std pitched roof sitting ontop.. what is there, in standard build form (ie no 'additional steps taken to close it') to stop wind/ draught entering the cavity, where the wall courses meet the roof?

[PeterW]

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

A separate Q re the wind howling away behind my upstairs beds1/2 plasterboard (& it is pB, not asbestos! I can see an edge: so pB quality back then ~80's approx, was way better than modern stuff then.. unless it 'sets' over time harder).

 

Q. Ive hinted at this q before: in a building with 2 block courses, & cavity between, & std pitched roof sitting ontop.. what is there, in standard build form (ie no 'additional steps taken to close it') to stop wind/ draught entering the cavity, where the wall courses meet the roof?

 

Should be some sort of cavity wall insulation ... or a cavity closer, older houses sometimes had a roll of fibreglass like a sausage in the top of the cavity. 

[Onoff]

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

soudal schmoudal.. cannae get the hang of it! but if I can get it working it does last/ goes on for ages.. I must say that. pir 'wad' done/ setting.

 

Got in loft to check out the backside of frame plan/ sealing up for mice. Gonna pB [] onto my frame, & just mortar up the gaps where foam visible (I like mortar v.satisfying/ tactile!). God its mice central in this loft tho/ horrible job- they all sleep in here after nipping thru me' ole to munch xyz.

 

 

I meant to comment on the gun issues before you edited it. For one reason or another I've "killed" two, maybe 3 guns. First was my fault and another just started to leak. Maybe just two?

 

But back to the gun that was my fault it died: I'd finished the can and decided to store the gun. I gave it a QUICK blast through with cleaner and put it away. That was my mistake. Next time...seized solid. Where I went wrong is that as per the instructions you're supposed to leave the cleaner in there for 5 mins or so before purging it!

 

It's all I can suggest you do. Take off the foam can and squirt the top of that to remove any oozing out. It should stop. Then spray the gun thread where the can screws in to clean that and screw the can on. Give it it a blast though with the gun cleaner and shut the valve as you're doing it. Leave the cleaner in there to do it's magic for 5, 10 mins. Blast through, foam back on and try again. Also check the very tip of the gun barrel. There's a wee ball bearing looking thing in there that can get gummed up. It retracts I think as you pull the trigger. VERY carefully use the tip of a Stanley blade to clean any crud. Go too mad and you'll score things and it'll leak (ask me how I know )

 

Yours being a new gun you might have some luck with a strip down if it comes to it. Two things I've found is that the black Teflon coating on the central "rod" up the gun barrel wears off over time. That in turn causes leakage through little O rings and imo it's new gun time.

[zoothorn]

Brill cheers- I'm gonna print this off (tried to find prior info/ needle in my haystack of a thread tho!). Ive had such a battle the cleaner can's label looks like a rotweiler attatcked it/ can't read.. & red nozzle which was always loose on top/ never fitted, gone awol too. Once I get the explosion of foam & 'wehey!' etc (usually over my workbench, & me- now I aim into a bin bag resulting in it swimming with cleaner).. I sing its praises even if my gun's tricky. This can's got 1/3rd left & done so many jobs even wasting loads cleaning it + hassle etc.. its still been invaluable.

 

The bare plaster paint too- perfect for job (if a wee bit sticky/ thick perhaps) meant 2 coats of that + 1 zoot-green = job done.

 

The best buy of all tho bartoline finish plaster tub @ £4.50.. cost as good as the stuff/ did all reveal feathering & patching with 1 tub.

 

Next one of those pB robot zoot-suits for my upstairs spring marathon!!