Help with kitchen renovation/ 1st house.

[PeterW]

Feather over it with a very fine internal filler such as Toupret or Alabastine

[Onoff]

Are you using a coarse enough grit paper? The Mirka comes with a selection of Abranet type sheets but nothing too coarse from memory.

 

Has one of your mice got stuck up the Hoover pipe?

 

 

[zoothorn]

I started using the p80 today.. but same results, very little paint coming off/ you need ages one a tiny bit, drives you mad & unfeasable timewise 7 effort (Im covered in sweat & dust just doing 1 sq foot) means you just can't continue.

 

No mammals up me pipe, today. 1300w Vax, all checked nothing stopping suction.. but design of handy (so far as this one is telling me) isn't making suction happen on the face, or very very little as to be 95% useless. i don't get it.. the dedicated vacs cant be like 3x mine @ 3900w or something absurd. tried my other 1200w vac/ same. connection albeit gaffered, are solid, vent thing closed on handybendygandy & my vac hose.

 

im back to scraping every inch as it means at least no dust.

 

[zoothorn]

Ive got this huge blown area of plaster to sort too- what do I do here-? the plaster's a good 4mm thick.

[Onoff]

56 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ive got this huge blown area of plaster to sort too- what do I do here-? the plaster's a good 4mm thick.

 

You learn to plaster. Like I did. By watching the 4 videos by this bloke:

 

 

I WISH I'd watched some tiling videos!

[zoothorn]

Nuts.. I'll have to do it the zoot short way then.

[Onoff]

If a bit deft with the plastering trowel you could do it with patching plaster.

[zoothorn]

Well I'm not bad in fact (the sloped reveal edges you suggested came out great- you totally forget there's even a slope, I'm really stoked with this).

 

But what i'm thinking, as its thick plaster (crap job): mortar a 2mm layer.. skim over 2mm with my cheapo plaster. Its ~sort of hidden by fridge etc & not a prominent area so can compromise. gonna have to, I can't warrant the time on a VG plaster job +  £20 of materials just for this twattybit.

[zoothorn]

Onoff whilst your there, a slight detour Q..

 

As I mentioned, Ive a pressing job as winter's near: the 2nd/ spare bedroom's ply-covering-an-old-window-void. Through void, thbrown wadding is (a token gesture!) is the loft above kitchen/ cold air: a huge reason surely for freezing upstairs rooms.. alas not the main reason, but a job that desperately needs doing 1st of -many- upstairs.

 

The pic shows the thickness of old 1830 wall, the narrowing of walls' sides outwards.. & the added prob of plumbing pipes + leccy wires (both out into loft > down into extenstion area incorporating kitchen, bathroom). This is typical of the dog's dinner job I'm up against sorting.

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Well I'm not bad in fact (the sloped reveal edges you suggested came out great- you totally forget there's even a slope, I'm really stoked with this).

 

But what i'm thinking, as its thick plaster (crap job): mortar a 2mm layer.. skim over 2mm with my cheapo plaster. Its ~sort of hidden by fridge etc & not a prominent area so can compromise. gonna have to, I can't warrant the time on a VG plaster job +  £20 of materials just for this twattybit.

 

Let's be honest here but you well and truely took my Prevarication Crown with all this and argued "I can't!" at every turn. And look how it's all turned out so far!

 

How about this stuff, gets good reviews and good for deep areas. Your Bartoline "cheapo" filler is only good up to 3mm and guessing you haven't much left? If you have though and it's only 4mm I'd do two coats. If none left this:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-big-hole-ready-mixed-wall-filler-grey-1-2ltr/95289

 

As for the upstairs pics, looks like we're on this Money Pit house journey together mate!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

On 16/11/2018 at 16:32, PeterStarck said:

Very smart. Like the green and the blinds with the tiling.

 

Thanks Peter- bloomin hard to get a good pic of colour: uncannily my green-cicled 'Z' over here (<).. is an almost spot on colour match.

 

[JSHarris glad someone's awake at the back!]

 

Good link again Onoff.. looks ideal. you're a dictionary on just whats needed- most helpful! (I think I'll do a separate thread for blocking up my bed2 hole).

[Onoff]

10 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Thanks Peter- bloomin hard to get a good pic of colour: uncannily my green-cicled 'Z' over here (<).. is an almost spot on colour match.

 

[JSHarris glad someone's awake at the back!]

 

Good link again Onoff.. looks ideal. you're a dictionary on just whats needed- most helpful! (I think I'll do a separate thread for blocking up my bed2 hole).

 

Always going to be flogging a dead horse with those solid castle walls I reckon. Once cold they stay cold unless you insulate! I've a complete mixture of wall types here, solid brick, solid block, cavity, one single skin.

 

At least I'll be dead before it's all finished!

 

 

[zoothorn]

Actually last night the main room was pretty cosy, 2 doors with excluders/ big curtain across stairs, door to kitchen kept shut.. albeit after the stove taking 2 hours using 1/2 a basket of logs as usual, a fairly big room mind.. but go upstairs into bed2 & you see your breath! its bizarre.

 

I must block up this bloomin great 'ole tho pronto Onoff. I'm thinking 2 courses of those lighter weight 'thermo' blocks, going across/ parrallel to the ply square, with 2x 2" of celotex (or 4x or even 6x my 1" offcuts.. I got lots to use up) between. Is that the right sort of idea-?

[PeterW]

Ignore blocks - waste of time. 

 

Make a frame of 3x2 that roughly fits the opening. Make sure it’s got a vertical for strength too. Push it in about 300mm, screw it to the walls and go round the edges with gun foam. 

 

Now cut 3 or 4 pieces of 50mm celotex to fit the same - push in, foam round and add the next one. Last off use some batten or spare 3x2 to hold this plug of insulation in. 

 

You can create an alcove or something if you want to as the insulation and especially the spray foam will stop the drafts. 

 

Ideally you want 3-400mm of insulation over that kitchen ceiling first before you block it all up. 

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Actually last night the main room was pretty cosy, 2 doors with excluders/ big curtain across stairs, door to kitchen kept shut.. albeit after the stove taking 2 hours using 1/2 a basket of logs as usual, a fairly big room mind.. but go upstairs into bed2 & you see your breath! its bizarre.

 

I must block up this bloomin great 'ole tho pronto Onoff. I'm thinking 2 courses of those lighter weight 'thermo' blocks, going across/ parrallel to the ply square, with 2x 2" of celotex (or 4x or even 6x my 1" offcuts.. I got lots to use up) between. Is that the right sort of idea-?

 

I'm all for using up off cuts of pir. Wedge/stack like you're building a walk and foam fill all the gaps as the "mortar" between. Dampen the wall edges do the foam sticks better.

[Onoff]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Ignore blocks - waste of time. 

 

Make a frame of 3x2 that roughly fits the opening. Make sure it’s got a vertical for strength too. Push it in about 300mm, screw it to the walls and go round the edges with gun foam. 

 

Now cut 3 or 4 pieces of 50mm celotex to fit the same - push in, foam round and add the next one. Last off use some batten or spare 3x2 to hold this plug of insulation in. 

 

You can create an alcove or something if you want to as the insulation and especially the spray foam will stop the drafts. 

 

Ideally you want 3-400mm of insulation over that kitchen ceiling first before you block it all up. 

 

Could he do 160mm of pir instead over the ceiling?

[PeterW]

Cheaper and easier to do loft insulation - roll it out and forget it. PIR would need cutting to get into the access and tbh I could do that loft in 20 minutes ..!

[Onoff]

20 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Cheaper and easier to do loft insulation - roll it out and forget it. PIR would need cutting to get into the access and tbh I could do that loft in 20 minutes ..!

 

Easier for vermin to nest in the fluffy stuff isn't it? That's why I pir'd above the bathroom. Figured a nice cold (and drying) breeze across the top would be less attractive.

 

That and I could let the cat have a run around up there everynow and again. Trouble is it's taken me so long the cat's DIED!

[PeterW]

Only if you use Rockwool. Use a glass wool product which a lot of the cheaper loft products are made from and they don’t like it the same way humans don’t ..!

 

I would look at cheap and fast first to retain the heat through the winter. I’d be looking at putting a back boiler in though first on the stove to get the heat out of it and into the rest of the house. 

[zoothorn]

Hi PeterW, Onoff.. before any idea of trying anything in the house vs the cold, was to get a Co in for new loft insulation (or modern version of the cr*p orange thin 80's stuff up there they just whacked it ontop of). Both lofts done. But, no difference to either beds or kitchen interms of 'feel'/ any cosier. Zilch. Asking the Q why not > lead me to conclude it had to be walls &/ or floor as chief 'cold cause' culprit then. So, as not possible to redo floors (& a huage job to renovate upstairs walls, which I'll have to do, next year, as the house is near-unliveable in re. cold esp upstairs) = only these 2 kitchen walls feasably I could attack (& jury's still out if any difference having been done). "Oh you'll be much cosier once this is all in" they said.. not an iota of change/ but still had to be done tho.

 

The brown oomschka thru bed2 'window', isn't in fact an enormous rice pud eminating from kitchen below.. but new Co's insulation. I asked them  to lay some over this window 'void' (only a token jesture vs the cold getting in here to bed2, as I knew).

[zoothorn]

On 23/11/2018 at 23:29, Onoff said:

 

Could he do 160mm of pir instead over the ceiling?

 

I could conceivably do so.. but logistics, one tiny 1/2 size hatch I can barely get thru, removing all brown wadding & old orange stuff (having only just paid to have it done too!) = I think I'll have to make do with it as it is. I'm sure the ceiling isn't where majority of cold is getting -in- too.. rather it would mostly serve only to contain any heat I can get in here (a struggle as floor/ walls, & big windows too basically introduce SO much cold, as to make heating this kitchen nigh on impossible even if I have a heater on flat-out, as I have to have most of the time- very costly). I

 

Its an absolute nightmare Im sure alot of folks would just pull the whole thing down & build a completely new dwelling instead. Last ev for eg: the warmest room; the main room (as its got the 10kW stove in).. stove cruising @ 350*C , for 3hrs, you go to sit in couch close by & its cold. Your back's cold/ your legs cold. So you have to keep getting up to stand next to stove for 5mins. Etc. And that's the cosiest it gets! just about ok with thermal leggings on, hat on.. but end 1/2 room is barely warm, then go upstairs to bed (immediately above stove) & you see your breath as you go up the stairs! heaven knows how a 60+ yr old woman, her daughter & her baby coped. I feel very sorry for the baby. And that was even colder, no stove but a cr*p gas thing instead I ripped out pronto. Its like going back to how they lived in 50's/ 60's living here in winter.

 

And last night wasn't even that cold. Right now, fan heater right next to me on high & on/off all day.. my nose is freezing, ends of fingers cold/ all cuttlery/ tools/ everything is terribly, oppressively cold. And go outside- & it actually feels warmer! Its honestly, like living in a fridge.

[zoothorn]

On 23/11/2018 at 23:25, PeterW said:

Ignore blocks - waste of time. 

 

Make a frame of 3x2 that roughly fits the opening. Make sure it’s got a vertical for strength too. Push it in about 300mm, screw it to the walls and go round the edges with gun foam. 

 

Now cut 3 or 4 pieces of 50mm celotex to fit the same - push in, foam round and add the next one. Last off use some batten or spare 3x2 to hold this plug of insulation in. 

 

You can create an alcove or something if you want to as the insulation and especially the spray foam will stop the drafts. 

 

Ideally you want 3-400mm of insulation over that kitchen ceiling first before you block it all up. 

 

Cold rant over/ back on the job! patched wall area near fridge, & base painted whole wall- seems ok none of that horrorshow old paint underneath showing thru! so prep's paid off (hardest work yet- major graft).

 

  @PeterW I'm just going over your suggestion for blocking me 'ole, without actual blocks then- great. Must do this job next.

 

Now the old 'castle walls' are very uneven, & not nice ~ limestone to drill into.. but alot harder/ denser, slate chunks (+ crap mortar prolly). How the heck can I drill into this to fix my frame in- is it even possible?

 

Onoff I'm not quite following your 'walk' idea (with my 1" pir-?).. can you expand on this?

 

cheers chaps- zoot

[zoothorn]

On 23/11/2018 at 23:56, Onoff said:

 

Easier for vermin to nest in the fluffy stuff isn't it? That's why I pir'd above the bathroom. Figured a nice cold (and drying) breeze across the top would be less attractive.

 

That and I could let the cat have a run around up there everynow and again. Trouble is it's taken me so long the cat's DIED!

 

Haha! oh no Im not laughing cos its died..

 

So you mentioned 160mm pir (instead of my new brown thick wadding, yes?) is that because joists are a bit longer as a std building rule?  160mm is just over 6", which is what I thought joists are, no? or maybe joists are also 160mm & just termed "6 inch" ?

 

As you see I'm weighing up if I could, conceivably do this before blocking me' ole with pir/ 3x2 frame/ foam etc. One thing to add there- Mickey seems very much to like munching expandi foam tho. the little prick. Is pir on his menu too?

[PeterW]

Don’t change the fluffy stuff - just check it is spread properly..!

 

you don’t need to screw the frame in tbh - got a table or chop saw you can make wedges on ..??

 

make the frame to fit the best way, then use pairs of wedges to hold it and then foam round the edges - will hold it tight when it goes off 

[zoothorn]

Aha I get it.. yup got a great chopsaw, never used in other way than 90* across but I guess you just shift it L a bit to 30* or something.. & whip off some 3x2 end for wedges?

 

Sorry are you suggesting leave my brown fluff & not redo with pir, or put in pir then put brown fluff back over top?

 

What about Mickey & The Expanding Foam? won't the lil fkwit just eat a hole through an edge area tho?