Maybe needing a new boiler

[MikeGrahamT21]

Other day our boiler started leaking, it’s the notoriously bad ideal isar he24, but it has lasted 10 years, bar a PCB change I did last year £50 off eBay, this time the manifold valve has gone, £100 for parts and it’s tricky to replace so labour is going to be high, we’ll see what the quote is anyway...

 

ive already done some research for this point in time and have come across the Johnson and Starley HR24C but can’t find any pricing for it anywhere, it’s labelled as the worlds most efficient boiler without requiring additional components due to it having the flue heat recovery system built in, in a standard size case.

 

has anyone come across this particular model before, or any Johnson and starley boiler? Anyone know a buy price?

 

any info would be great, likely going to have to move fast on this, all I know is it does everything we need, opentherm etc, but if it’s extortionate then will have to rethink.

 

found info on a site about green deal, if it still exists, this boiler qualifies for £1000 back, as it classed as two energy saving measures, only issue is we already have a condensing boiler, so may only get the flue heat recovery component, going to ring the firm up tomorrow and ask

 

Mike

[Alexphd1]

Can't comment on boiler but I would strongly stay with a main stream brand. Warranty work, parts availability and  trades with experience all easier with vailiant, WB etc. Pulled out lots of johnson and starlet hot air units.

 The boiler case does have a look of alpha boilers to it! 

[Nickfromwales]

Alpha iirc we're one of the earliest manufacturers who promoted flue heat recovery. Firstly they were a sit-on-top box but now are integrated. 

It's all still quite new, so I'm waiting for a bit of feedback before heading down that route TBH. 

 

[MikeGrahamT21]

Yeah it’s definitely a new thing for sure, this boiler has been on the market for a couple of years, keep seeing it advertised in my free building mags, started with 3yr warranty and has slowly worked to 8yrs. I’ve read somewhere the flue heat recovery has been put into building regs requirements from April this year, not looked into that yet but will have a read tomorrow.

 

ill not forget this one, but what mainstream boiler would you recommend? Must have opentherm as we can make full use of that, and be combi, other than that I’m open to options.

 

really not sure how much to spend on this 10yr old ideal boiler, no one rates it well even tho we’ve had virtually no issues with it, so gotta have a plan in place for every eventuality. Annoyingly had insurance last year but didn’t carry it on as they wanted near £30 a month!!

[MikeGrahamT21]

And I think I should also not discount converting to a system boiler with a water tank and solar diverter, instead of going down the battery route.

 

we’d look at an unvented tank, what sort of size for a 2person household, who use a little more than average hot water? We have 2 concrete posts sticking out of the wall in the loft, which is where the old tank used to be, but they are as far away from boiler and point of use as you can get, I’m guessing the ceiling joists wouldn’t take that kind of loading? Would it matter too much if tank want approx 15m away from the bits that need it?

[MikeGrahamT21]

Looking at water cylinders, some appear to come as standard with a 3kw immersion heater, do these things accept variable power input? Can't imagine its going to be very often we have a spare 3kw of generation. Or would it be necessary to add our own heater with a lower wattage? Looking on ebay there are much smaller wattage ones, 500, 750 etc, however it would be nice if the 3kw one could be used in a variable manner.

 

EDIT: Think i've found my answer, and thats a yes it does do that: http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=263692558672&t=1499859105000&tid=310&category=20715&seller=solarimmersion&excSoj=1&excTrk=1&lsite=3&ittenable=false&domain=ebay.co.uk&descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=1&secureDesc=0

Edited June 4, 2018 by MikeGrahamT21

[MikeGrahamT21]

Also, is this any good? https://solarimmersion.co.uk/features-of-solarimmersion/

 

One i'd heard of before was immersun, more expensive than this, but the company seem to have gone bust.

 

This one allows primary as water cylinder, and if we still have excess, we can add a secondary load, even a battery, though not sure how that would work totally in practice, as it doesn't seem like a Solar Battery inverter, so not sure what type battery they have in mind.

[MikeGrahamT21]

and I guess the killer question, because we dont have a cylinder, is the extra spend going to be worthwhile overall?

[MikeGrahamT21]

Got people telling me its not worth getting the extra cylinder, labour etc??

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Got people telling me its not worth getting the extra cylinder, labour etc??

Who's telling you that?

Do you already have PV? 

[MikeGrahamT21]

Gas engineers.

 

We've already got 4kw of PV, but we don't currently have a water cylinder.

[MikeGrahamT21]

We know Solar battery is too much at present, and having a cylinder is going to be a good £1k more than standard combi as far as I know. Its a shame where we can put it is the other side of the house to both the heat generator and the point of use, but not the end of the world, we just need to super insulate the pipes.

We've 2 others coming tonight to discuss all options, see what they think about it.

[ProDave]

I installed a Mk1 Solar Immersion for a friend.  I have since repaired it twice as there were serious engineering flaws.  Lets hope the latest version (which looks completely different) has fixed all those issues.

 

The issue with a long distance from the hot tank to the taps is the annoyance factor when you turn on a hot tap and have to wait for the hot water to get there. You could install a circulating system but then you do have to super insulate the pipework to save waste.

[MikeGrahamT21]

Yeah the engineer who came this morning spoke about the circulating system, he did also say the pipe work to the taps would all need re-doing, which i'm not such a fan of, just for the mess factor at this point in time.

 

At present we have to wait around 15-20sec for hot water, i even installed a combi-save, which brought it down from 30sec, so anything less than that will be fine.

[MikeGrahamT21]

33 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I installed a Mk1 Solar Immersion for a friend.  I have since repaired it twice as there were serious engineering flaws.  Lets hope the latest version (which looks completely different) has fixed all those issues.

 

The issue with a long distance from the hot tank to the taps is the annoyance factor when you turn on a hot tap and have to wait for the hot water to get there. You could install a circulating system but then you do have to super insulate the pipework to save waste.

 

Do you know of any other solar diverters? They are on MK4 of this one now, so you would hope the 4th attempt be good...

[Nickfromwales]

I'll post in a bit re the hot return, but you don't necessarily have to redo all the runs, there is a middle ground  

If you have PV then a hot water cylinder is a no-brainer.  

Attics no problem. You can get a horizontal. This house had 4kwp PV. 

[MikeGrahamT21]

I remember that install, a thing of beauty!

 

Latest fella just been, he also didn't think the tank would save any money any time soon

[Nickfromwales]

17 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

I remember that install, a thing of beauty!

 

Latest fella just been, he also didn't think the tank would save any money any time soon

All I can say is "penis". 

Free hot water all summer for the next 20+ years ? Yes, that would be utter madness.  

What height do you have up there? A std vertical UVC would be a lot cheaper as it gets a bit pricey when horizontal. 

 

If you have a gable you can get brackets made and sit it on those so the ceilings aren't taking any weight. 

[MikeGrahamT21]

I guess the thing which is niggling me is, do we actually use that much hot water, and I think the answer is no. Our gas bill for entire year, for heating, HW and gas hob was only £320 last year, well the hob has gone now, so even less next, but the majority will be Heating costs. if we say HW is £100 out of that £320, thats £2000 over 20 years, if we never had to pay for HW again, which won't happen. 

 

Can stand up in the loft with my arms up straight, so its fairly high, but it won't take 250kg of load for sure, ceiling joists are only 4x2.

 

I'm really racking my brains for something to use my spare kwh's on, i still think solar battery storage is the way for us when its a bit cheaper.

 

This latest chap has raved about Atag boilers, i'd never heard of them before, going to look into them tomorrow, what do people think of them?

[Nickfromwales]

The hot return would be plumbed to the very last point that the hot pipe becomes impractical / very difficult to get to. 

4 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

I guess the thing which is niggling me is, do we actually use that much hot water, and I think the answer is no. Our gas bill for entire year, for heating, HW and gas hob was only £320 last year, well the hob has gone now, so even less next, but the majority will be Heating costs. if we say HW is £100 out of that £320, thats £2000 over 20 years, if we never had to pay for HW again, which won't happen. 

 

Can stand up in the loft with my arms up straight, so its fairly high, but it won't take 250kg of load for sure, ceiling joists are only 4x2.

 

I'm really racking my brains for something to use my spare kwh's on, i still think solar battery storage is the way for us when its a bit cheaper.

 

This latest chap has raved about Atag boilers, i'd never heard of them before, going to look into them tomorrow, what do people think of them?

I was on the phone to my mate last night and he's now an Atag accredited installer. 

Hes says they're pricey but very good. He's fitting them for customers who want the flue gas heat recovery. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Nickfromwales
Typos

[MikeGrahamT21]

Cheers, good to know, don’t think we’ll be installed the heat recovery component, unless they aren’t too much extra, I know the vaillant addon is near £700!

[MikeGrahamT21]

Roughly around extra £400 by the looks

[Nickfromwales]

22 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Roughly around extra £400 by the looks

Iirc, boiler plus has kicked in in England, not yet enforced in Wales, so FGHR will be one of the ways to achieve the new higher scores. There are other ways of attaining such criteria, but I think FGHR would be where my money was. 

[MikeGrahamT21]

Yeah, its either FGHR or Weather Compensation, we already have weather compensation via the Tado thermostat we have, but I'm going to consider FGHR too, got to make my mind up today! The old one is dripping faster each time i turn it back on

[MikeGrahamT21]

Mind made up, FGHR it is, going for Atag iC Economiser 27, install either end of week or beginning of next