Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Would it be possible to provide some sort of linear drain across the pavers, by cutting slots out to an edge? Not sure if it would help much, but I think that, for any sealing fix to work it's going to help a lot if there isn't water sat in a puddle around the window upstands. Yeah I kind of thought if something like this . But as you say no guarantee it will work . Architect said he’ll look tomorrow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Suppose I ripped out that line of pavers right back to the drain . What would I put in their to drain water away ??? - connection to drain would be tricky aswell - low profile drain . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Not sure, I was just thinking that stopping water from sitting around the window upstands would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Is there any kind of ‘resin’ I can use to Infill the gaps between pavers - make it ‘more’ water tight ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, pocster said: I’m not even sure breaking this out is the correct thing ! The water is running under the rubber - doesn’t mean it’s at the base of the upstand - could be anywhere as my hose test proved ! Feel a bit stuck ! I'd flood test in that gap between the pavers and frame first. Gut feel is it's getting in the edpm "laps" up the sides on the upstand or worse at the base. You'll get a mass of water above/to the side of the leak and simple gravity will push it to find the smallest crack hole. Will v.likely get worse when any trapped water freezes, expands and widens the split etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, pocster said: Is there any kind of ‘resin’ I can use to Infill the gaps between pavers - make it ‘more’ water tight ??? The simple answer is no, and I think you really need to get water to drain away as quickly as possible from underneath the pavers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 One for the ladies, what an excellently named product: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Captain-Tolleys-Creeping-Crack-sealer/dp/B003T6EJ9A 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Here’s a non installed window . I’m going to assume all sides leak . The rubber looks good - but it’s rubber and can push in I.e making a tiny gap between it and the concrete . If I assume there’s a bad joint or rip below the concrete - then water could get in . So I need to form a water tight seal between rubber and concrete ..... erm ... Surely can’t just smear ct1 and hope . My thinking has changed to prevent the water getting to the rubber meets concrete . Edited October 17, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: I'd flood test in that gap between the pavers and frame first. Gut feel is it's getting in the edpm "laps" up the sides on the upstand or worse at the base. You'll get a mass of water above/to the side of the leak and simple gravity will push it to find the smallest crack hole. Will v.likely get worse when any trapped water freezes, expands and widens the split etc. Yeah I probably shouldn’t of took the glass out . Any water spills over frame ; then you can’t tell . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 How about "shuttering" around the upstand say with a 4 sided "plastic" frame CT1'd to the edpm on the main roof. Then pour this in? http://www.epdmliquid.co.uk/home#sthash.jW7Ivavi.dpbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: How about "shuttering" around the upstand say with a 4 sided "plastic" frame CT1'd to the edpm on the main roof. Then pour this in? http://www.epdmliquid.co.uk/home#sthash.jW7Ivavi.dpbs Not sure what you mean ? Do a pic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Onoff Do you mean like this ? Pour edpm invetween shuttering and metal frame ? Not as crazy as it sounds !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, the_r_sole said: if the water is coming under the rubber then it really looks like the rubber has been compromised at some point, world of pain here but it really looks like start again from first principles. something may have punctured the membrane during construction, it's an absolute nightmare to find a leak in a rubber roof! Possibly - weakest point though is around upstands and corners . Hose on that other window direct on the corner I.e flooding it . The water gets in . I think @Onoff suggestion might have merit ! . Then there’s a big rubber seal around upstand - I assume it bonds no issue to the concrete ( no good if it creeps under ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, pocster said: @Onoff Do you mean like this ? Pour edpm invetween shuttering and metal frame ? Not as crazy as it sounds !!! Yep. Nothing to loose...except time and money! Have you got a section drawing through these roof lights? Been involved with lead capped concrete upstands on roofs for 35 years now. The hot asphalt ones are the standard to judge all others by imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, Onoff said: Yep. Nothing to loose...except time and money! Have you got a section drawing through these roof lights? Been involved with lead capped concrete upstands on roofs for 35 years now. The hot asphalt ones are the standard to judge all others by imo. Spoke to them - there is no liquid edpm you can just pour and shutter . Though he said they have a kind of liquid ct1 - I’m sending him photos later . section drawings ? You mean of the slab make up ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 32 minutes ago, the_r_sole said: if the water is coming under the rubber then it really looks like the rubber has been compromised at some point, world of pain here but it really looks like start again from first principles. something may have punctured the membrane during construction, it's an absolute nightmare to find a leak in a rubber roof! But I’ve got pavers ; concrete ; 35mm reinforced concrete above the rubber ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, the_r_sole said: as I said - world of pain! ? could put ct1 between all the pavers ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, pocster said: ? could put ct1 between all the pavers ?? Sealing above the source of water that's making its way in isn't going to help, and may even make things worse. The golden rules with something like this are to prevent water getting to a low point where it might be able to penetrate, to provide the best possible drainage route for any water that does get to a critical area so it drains away from anywhere it might be able to penetrate and, finally, to ensure that the sealing system around any area where water could penetrate is sufficiently robust as to keep any small amount of water that might get that far out. Sealing on it's own isn't the fix, I think, you need to try and find a way to stop water pooling around the upstands somehow. Even if you do manage to seal things up for now, as mentioned earlier, a few freeze/thaw cycles on the trapped water will almost certainly cause further damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Ok so looking at a seal and a ‘drain’ of some sort .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Don't forget water will track to the lowest point assuming no wind driving it uphill (does happen). The worry is that the ingress point is not local to the window upstands. If it is some metres away and getting under the main edpm then that's the bugger to find. I've seen water on a large roof get between concrete and hot bonded asphalt and gradually seep to the lowest point (concrete was laid to falls). Successive Summers came and the asphalt softened enough at the low point for a caldera / carbuncle to form, 2' dia and nearly a foot high, full of water under pressure from the sides due to the sheer volume of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: Don't forget water will track to the lowest point assuming no wind driving it uphill (does happen). The worry is that the ingress point is not local to the window upstands. If it is some metres away and getting under the main edpm then that's the bugger to find. I've seen water on a large roof get between concrete and hot bonded asphalt and gradually seep to the lowest point (concrete was laid to falls). Successive Summers came and the asphalt softened enough at the low point for a caldera / carbuncle to form, 2' dia and nearly a foot high, full of water under pressure from the sides due to the sheer volume of water. Yeah I know ! The best I can do to test is hopefully seal around rubber to concrete . Stick windows back in and silicone (3rd time ) then hose it . I then know and suspect now anyway as I’ve eliminated the flashing . Not sure how an earth I provide a drain from there though ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 It’s a real disappointment for you man...... I am dealing with water problems on my shed windows.,... it’s bypassing vertical rubber seals due to the wind forcing the water between the glass and the rubber. Improved seals will be the solution for me. However you problem is way bigger and as others have said there is no easy fix. If the EPDM is leaking at any point on the roof then your in a world of pain but you tested this by flooding the area ? Was this when the upstands were in but prior to the windows Being fitted ? What level did you flood it to ? You’ve eliminated the flashings as you tarped them and then did a flood test again...... when you first flood tested what was the flood lever overflow ? Ie where did the water run of first ? Since that point you have raised the water level significantly (75mm concrete,clippings,sand, pavers) I would there for assume the leak has to be between the old flood level and the top of the pavers. Finding out at what level the leak starts will help to identify where the problem is...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now