Edpm at edges

[Pocster]

Looking at the 3rd photo I.e underneath up at the sky light .

You can see the water tracking from the corners . My *assumption* is somewhere the water gets under the rubber then ‘comes out’ at that point .

Rather than the water ran from the edge ( following the track marks back ) to the opening .

This a sensible thought ? Or not .....

[Onoff]

11 minutes ago, pocster said:

Not sure exactly what you mean by drainage above edpm . The block paving runs into drainage channel .

The edpm has 35mm on concrete on it . Not to mention my concrete to bed the pavers . I did a water test ( when just edpm was down ) - flooded the site ( but not going over the edges I.e where flashing would be ) - no leaks ; hence did the pour .

 

Gut feel is with you, that it's "tracking" from elsewhere. 

[Pocster]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Gut feel is with you, that it's "tracking" from elsewhere. 

Yeah - I’m trusting my gut - this problem keeps me awake at night ☹️

Although an atheist I’ll pray for rain ; then if all the track marks go I *know* it’s the flashing - and that’s accessible and fixable .

Who builds a fucking house underground anyway !

[Mr Punter]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

Who builds a fucking house underground anyway

 

Josef Fritzl

[Pocster]

14 minutes ago, pocster said:

Looking at the 3rd photo I.e underneath up at the sky light .

You can see the water tracking from the corners . My *assumption* is somewhere the water gets under the rubber then ‘comes out’ at that point .

Rather than the water ran from the edge ( following the track marks back ) to the opening .

This a sensible thought ? Or not .....

Really want a time lapse camera pointing at the underside of the opening ! - then could see which way the water runs ?

[Mr Punter]

Perhaps take up the paving just around the rooflight to expose the membrane.

[Pocster]

7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Perhaps take up the paving just around the rooflight to expose the membrane.

Yeah that’s my next possible option . Out of 4 walk on glass only 2 are fully installed . The other ‘ complete one ‘ has clammy blockwork in its up stand - unlikely both had damaged rubber or bad install by me ?

[ADLIan]

With a buried roof the slab should not be cast directly onto the waterproof membrane. A drainage layer of gravel or specialist drainage membrane should be used. Water drainage should be a 2 levels - at the level of the epdm membrane and at the finished roof surface. Specialist drain outlets are available for this. Level, flush fitting, roof lights are also a specialist product. Can’t help feeling that the roof will be forever problematic without a major renovation and correct detailing and product selection. Lots of info on internet on buried roofs or podium roofs.

[Pocster]

11 hours ago, ADLIan said:

With a buried roof the slab should not be cast directly onto the waterproof membrane. A drainage layer of gravel or specialist drainage membrane should be used. Water drainage should be a 2 levels - at the level of the epdm membrane and at the finished roof surface. Specialist drain outlets are available for this. Level, flush fitting, roof lights are also a specialist product. Can’t help feeling that the roof will be forever problematic without a major renovation and correct detailing and product selection. Lots of info on internet on buried roofs or podium roofs.

You can drive on this roof hence no drainage chippings .

Wall covered - water tracking looks worse today after rain ffs !

[Pocster]

Stuck hose pipe spraying over corner and side of window . So it’s getting saturated and water is flowing right over it 

[Pocster]

Right !

hosing it 

A few drops formed underneath !!!

So can’t be flashing 

Dead body white line so I don’t kid myself it’s getting better ?

[Pocster]

Glass out ( again )

can clealy see on the block work the water ingress line 

Now to get the frame out and break out all the surrounding blocks ?

Edited October 17, 2018 by pocster

[Mr Punter]

OK well hopefully you have now established the cause.  Before you put it all together again, can you get someone to do a proper design and spec for you to follow as winging it has not worked so far.

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

OK well hopefully you have now established the cause.  Before you put it all together again, can you get someone to do a proper design and spec for you to follow as winging it has not worked so far.

There was no proper design .

I don’t think a company would take this on in the current form - because they’d want to get right back to the rubber ....

[Pocster]

I’m not even sure breaking this out is the correct thing !

The water is running under the rubber - doesn’t mean it’s at the base of the upstand - could be anywhere as my hose test proved !

Feel a bit stuck !

[Pocster]

Probably a stupid thing to mention but hey ho .

My pavers haven’t been in filled with sand yet . So obviously water runs between them and somehow finds it way in .

Not sure if that’s relevant- just desperate ☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

[Pocster]

Testing the other window !

 

 

[Pocster]

I remember seeing a grand design once where they built below ground .

They did the wall pour in 2 stages !!! Put some ‘special’ stuff between the gone off first pour and the 2nd pour . Supposedly to water proof the joint 

Needless to say it didn’t work 

I think they then had some form of tanking . This was for the entire below ground walling .

As a last resort an option ??????? ?

[Pocster]

Larger window leaks with hose on it but no where near as bad - hardly good news though 

 

 

[Pocster]

Spoke too soon tracking back via the steel 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Looks like the pavers are always going to sit in a puddle of water, as there doesn't seem to be any way for water to drain away underneath them. 

 

Not sure how you can fix that easily at this stage.

 

The water level looks like it can get up to the top of the pavers, so that's going to make the sealing around the windows challenging.  Not sure how you can solve this, TBH.  My best guess is that water is either getting in through the corners around the windows, where the original EPDM corner joints didn't look that neat and tidy, or it's just getting in through the window frame to EPDM seal and running under and into the blockwork.

 

Any sealant you try and seal this with now is probably going to fail at some point, as this window and frame is going to be subjected to movement from thermal expansion and contraction plus the load from cars and people walking over it.  Hopefully someone can come up with an idea that might fix this.

[PeterW]

Who installed the Rubber and what was the guarantee ..??

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

Looks like the pavers are always going to sit in a puddle of water, as there doesn't seem to be any way for water to drain away underneath them. 

 

Not sure how you can fix that easily at this stage.

 

The water level looks like it can get up to the top of the pavers, so that's going to make the sealing around the windows challenging.  Not sure how you can solve this, TBH.  My best guess is that water is either getting in through the corners around the windows, where the original EPDM corner joints didn't look that neat and tidy, or it's just getting in through the window frame to EPDM seal and running under and into the blockwork.

 

Any sealant you try and seal this with now is probably going to fail at some point, as this window and frame is going to be subjected to movement from thermal expansion and contraction plus the load from cars and people walking over it.  Hopefully someone can come up with an idea that might fix this.

Thanks JS 

My original idea ( before I even begun this part ) . Was tanking and then dimpled membrane ‘somehow’ over the ceiling . But like the walls below ground I.e don’t try and keep the water out manage it .

[Pocster]

Just now, PeterW said:

Who installed the Rubber and what was the guarantee ..??

Well ! This was my bodge roofers ! Remember didn’t even want to do flashing .

i tested it with just rubber and was water tight . Their upstand rubber was ridiculously short so I did have to extend it - so could equally be my fault .

 

I was guessing a ‘drain’ around the windows of some sort - but it looks like the water is getting in well below the pavers ....

[Jeremy Harris]

Would it be possible to provide some sort of linear drain across the pavers, by cutting slots out to an edge?  Not sure if it would help much, but I think that, for any sealing fix to work it's going to help a lot if there isn't water sat in a puddle around the window upstands.