Ideas please for corner window that can open fully.

[JohnW]

Hi,

We have 2 corner windows, Ground floor & First floor same sized opening. The photo shows the Ground floor, the First floor opening will be directly above it. The opening dimensions are 1500mm tall and 2400mm wide each side.

We would like to be able to fully open the First floor set and the only thing I can think of is a short set of glazed bifold doors i.e 1500mm tall.

So my questions are;

1. Is it possible to get bifold windows and if so can anyone recommend a supplier
2. Is there a solution other than bifold?

I would appreciate any ideas of suitable products that would allow us to open the space fully.

Thanks

John

[Jeremy Harris]

I think you may run into a problem with the regs, if they are the same as here, as they require first floor windows to be fitted with a device to limit the opening, so a child can't just open the window fully and fall out.  Usually these restrictors can be unlatched, but it's a two handed job, deliberately so, to make it difficult for a small child to do.  For that reason I doubt that you could get a bifold system to work, plus bifold doors are notorious for losing airtightness after a year or two, as the sealing force on the folding joint is pretty hard to maintain. 

 

2400mm is too wide for a single side opening casement, too, although you might be able to find someone who would make custom top hinged frames; I'm not all sure how wide you can go with top hinges, but it'd be little different to a glazed door fitted on it's side.  Restrictors would still be needed, but they can be fitted easily enough to top hinged glazing.  One challenge to overcome is how to insulate the corner pillar to prevent a thermal bridge and the associated condensation risk, which may be difficult if you want a slim look in the corner with the windows open.

 

Finally, how high above the floor is the lower edge of the first floor opening?  I can't recall off the top of my head what the regs say about the minimum height for the lower edge of a fully opening aperture, but have a feeling it's around 1100mm above floor level.  If the windows are 1500mm high, then unless the room has higher than average ceilings, you may run into problems there, too.

 

Worth checking the regs that apply in NI, though, as they may well be different to those that apply here, so some of the points above may not be correct.

 

 

[JohnW]

Thanks @JSHarris, I hadn't thought about the restrictors, although I assume they could be put in place if for example, we have a 3 x 800mm panel bifold system with the 1st panel behaving like a traffic door/window? It's certainly something I will be asking suppliers when I find one that does supply bifold windows.

 

Regarding the height from the floor, the window sill will be at 900mm (so no need for toughened safety glass) and the head of the window at 2400mm. Our ceilings will be 2600mm. I'll  have to check the rules relating to fully opening apertures. 

[Russell griffiths]

What we are looking for are sliding windows, we had them in our last place but finding it hard to source here, very easy to restrict opening. 

The only thing would be that like a patio door you will end up with a fixed pain aprox half way across 

Another idea is a servery window, but again not common over here

we think we are going to have to source our windows from Canada. 

[Declan52]

We looked into something similar when doing mine and at the end just left it fully glazed. The only other choice was to divide the window up by 1/3 and have a fixed pane on the bottom 400mm and then a standard opening in the rest. 

In the end we just didn't like it that way so just ended up fully glazed.

[Russell griffiths]

2 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

We looked into something similar when doing mine and at the end just left it fully glazed. The only other choice was to divide the window up by 1/3 and have a fixed pane on the bottom 400mm and then a standard opening in the rest. 

In the end we just didn't like it that way so just ended up fully glazed.

That is very similar to how are sliders were, but I seem to remember the lower bar was to stop having to have the whole thing toughened glass. Will try to find a pic. 

I personally found the sliding window a very good idea. 

[Jeremy Harris]

34 minutes ago, JohnW said:

Thanks @JSHarris, I hadn't thought about the restrictors, although I assume they could be put in place if for example, we have a 3 x 800mm panel bifold system with the 1st panel behaving like a traffic door/window? It's certainly something I will be asking suppliers when I find one that does supply bifold windows.

 

Regarding the height from the floor, the window sill will be at 900mm (so no need for toughened safety glass) and the head of the window at 2400mm. Our ceilings will be 2600mm. I'll  have to check the rules relating to fully opening apertures. 

 

Here the protection from falling part of the regs (Part K) requires a minimum height of 1100mm from the floor.  The 900mm is the requirement for toughened glass on any glazing below that height from the floor.

 

The applicable part relates to railings, barriers etc from first floor height or above, so should apply to a full opening.

 

If you're intent on fitting custom bifolds, then I'm sure that there will be some form of restrictor that can be fitted, but I also think you'll need to raise the lower edge higher off the floor, perhaps with fixed glazing, or even an externally mounted glass barrier, like a Juliet balcony.  Personally I'd avoid a bifold solution like the plague, just because of the long term seal issues that are almost guaranteed to occur.

[Declan52]

Mine is only 600mm from finished floor so all had to be toughened glass. 

The only thing about being one complete pane is during a very windy storm it doesn't half flex about. Near shat myself the first time it happened. Thought it was going to come in round me.

[le-cerveau]

ARe you prepared to have a mullion in the center of the opening?  If so then you can get fully opening windows each pain 1200 wide, I have them.  I have one window that is 2400 wide and 1800 high with 2 pains and a single mullion

[JohnW]

14 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

What we are looking for are sliding windows, we had them in our last place but finding it hard to source here, very easy to restrict opening. 

The only thing would be that like a patio door you will end up with a fixed pain aprox half way across 

Another idea is a servery window, but again not common over here

we think we are going to have to source our windows from Canada. 

Thanks @Russell griffiths, I think I could live with sliding windows but having checked Building regulations I will have to have some sort of barrier to raise the bottom of the opening from 900mm to 1100mm which I feel defeats the purpose of having the window fully opened, so I may go back to the drawing board.

 

I hadn't heard of "servery windows" but googling them, they look very interesting, thanks.

[JohnW]

15 hours ago, Declan52 said:

In the end we just didn't like it that way so just ended up fully glazed.

Thanks @Declan52, when you say "fully glazed", do you mean no openings at all?

[JohnW]

14 hours ago, JSHarris said:

If you're intent on fitting custom bifolds, then I'm sure that there will be some form of restrictor that can be fitted, but I also think you'll need to raise the lower edge higher off the floor, perhaps with fixed glazing, or even an externally mounted glass barrier, like a Juliet balcony.  Personally I'd avoid a bifold solution like the plague, just because of the long term seal issues that are almost guaranteed to occur.

Thanks @JSHarris, downstairs we moved away from bifolds doors to lift & slide for the very same reason, so I take your point about bifold windows.

[JohnW]

14 hours ago, Declan52 said:

Mine is only 600mm from finished floor so all had to be toughened glass. 

The only thing about being one complete pane is during a very windy storm it doesn't half flex about. Near shat myself the first time it happened. Thought it was going to come in round me.

@Declan52, it must be a big window, what are the dimensions?

[JohnW]

3 hours ago, le-cerveau said:

ARe you prepared to have a mullion in the center of the opening?  If so then you can get fully opening windows each pain 1200 wide, I have them.  I have one window that is 2400 wide and 1800 high with 2 pains and a single mullion

Thanks @le-cerveau, I'm not sure how that would work at the corner, have you any photos of yours to help me visualise?

[le-cerveau]

20 minutes ago, JohnW said:

Thanks @le-cerveau, I'm not sure how that would work at the corner, have you any photos of yours to help me visualise?

This is all I have to hand, the first one is the 2400 wide from the outside.

Second one shows both inside, this one is 2000 wide, you can just see the 2400 round the corner.

These are internorm units triple glazed with internal blind's

[Declan52]

41 minutes ago, JohnW said:

@Declan52, it must be a big window, what are the dimensions?

Yeah it's just one single pane of triple glazing. I reckon it's close on 2.2m X 1.5m. It is south facing so let's in a lot of light which is what we wanted plus you get a fair amount of heat from solar gain. On the downside the blinds weren't cheap!!! But during spring and autumn when the sun is lower you have to have the blinds down or you cant watch TV . 

That's the only pic I have on my phone but the other window coming down is the same size.

[JohnW]

2 hours ago, Declan52 said:

Yeah it's just one single pane of triple glazing. I reckon it's close on 2.2m X 1.5m. It is south facing so let's in a lot of light which is what we wanted plus you get a fair amount of heat from solar gain. On the downside the blinds weren't cheap!!! But during spring and autumn when the sun is lower you have to have the blinds down or you cant watch TV . 

That's the only pic I have on my phone but the other window coming down is the same size.

Class big window, who did you get your windows from? (looks like the dog is about to launch himself out through it)

Thanks for sharing.

[Declan52]

32 minutes ago, JohnW said:

Class big window, who did you get your windows from? (looks like the dog is about to launch himself out through it)

Thanks for sharing.

From baskil. So far so good with them but have seen plenty of their bad jobs.

There is always cats out on the left handside and the dog goes nuts trying to get at them.

[rjq]

On 18/05/2018 at 13:46, Declan52 said:

From baskil. So far so good with them but have seen plenty of their bad jobs.

There is always cats out on the left handside and the dog goes nuts trying to get at them.

 

Apologies for resurrecting this so late in the day, the windows look class @Declan52.  Where did you get the blinds?

[Declan52]

33 minutes ago, rjq said:

 

Apologies for resurrecting this so late in the day, the windows look class @Declan52.  Where did you get the blinds?

A local blinds company made them. 

[rjq]

6 hours ago, Declan52 said:

A local blinds company made them. 

We're based in Moira, is it far from there?

[Declan52]

23 minutes ago, rjq said:

We're based in Moira, is it far from there?

K blinds on the avenue rd lurgan  so pretty close to you.