Lower application fee for a Householder.

[epsilonGreedy]

While looking at the fees table from my local planning office I noticed that a non material change is 85% cheaper if it relates to householder applications.

 

When buying a plot with detailed planning permission at what point do I become a householder? I can think of some definitions...

 

1. Any non building professional intending to take up long term residence on some land.
2. Any non building professional intending to take up long term residence on some land and who has title ownership.
3. A person residing in an established property and paying Council Tax.

Edited March 8, 2018 by epsilonGreedy

[jack]

We had this issue when we approached our local planning department for some informal advice about knocking down our bungalow and rebuilding. The moment they heard we were considering knocking down, we were refused an informal discussion (which are advertised as being available for householders) and were instead told to pay the fee for pre-planning advice for non-householders.

 

From memory, if you're building a new house on a vacant plot, or knocking down a house to rebuild, you can't be a householder. By definition, you're a developer, even if you owned and lived in a house that is to be knocked down and rebuilt. 

I don't know what the definition is if you're just doing an extension.

[Ferdinand]

It seems a strange distinction between householder and developer. By definition you cannot get to pre-app advice until you at least have some idea, and some things can't be discussed in writing by their nature.

 

SO the way to do it could be to have the conversation about appearance and all the other stuff first as a renovation, and then keep from mentioning the flattening until the end, and / or framing the conversation as you would for Planning Aid in terms of policy and principles not a specific site.

 

But since I get charged full whack for everything regardless, I am not sure I want to encourage that :-).

 

But then my local council still operates a Duty Planner system !

 

To clarify you could phone up as Mr Smith and ask them where the lines are drawn. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

I thought a "householder" planning application was for things like extensions or alterations to a house. I know this is what we did when extending our former house many years ago now.

 

 A new house is outside the scope of that.

[epsilonGreedy]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

A new house is outside the scope of that.

 

 

The proposed alteration falls within the scope of a non material change to a plot with detailed planning permission (no foundations dug as yet). The motivation behind my question was whether I could save £200 by delaying the application until I owned the plot or even later when I was paying council tax.

[jack]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I thought a "householder" planning application was for things like extensions or alterations to a house. I know this is what we did when extending our former house many years ago now.

 

 A new house is outside the scope of that.

 

Exactly my understanding too.

 

40 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

So the way to do it could be to have the conversation about appearance and all the other stuff first as a renovation, and then keep from mentioning the flattening until the end, and / or framing the conversation as you would for Planning Aid in terms of policy and principles not a specific site. 

 

That's what we did. We said "Well, we're 50:50 on whether we'll knock down or extend. We're just after an in-principle idea of what sort of thing, generally, might be allowed as a result". The planning officer eventually - and begrudgingly - agreed to give us the informal chat we'd booked.

She then went on the say "I hope you're not planning anything from Grand Designs. We hate Grand Designs around here". I was in the process of pulling an issue of Grand Designs magazine out of my bag to show her, so quickly changing to a self-build magazine that had some more conventional examples.

 

She also boasted that they'd fought several applications for Huf houses and had successfully knocked back all of them except two. Both of the Huf houses I know were built are out of sight of the road - I can't possibly see what basis there is for arguing against modernity on principle, especially when no-one other than a visitor to the property can actually see the house.

 

In the end, we got something very modern (eg, flat roof) through, so it can be done.  

 

1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said:

The proposed alteration falls within the scope of a non material change to a plot with detailed planning permission (no foundations dug as yet). The motivation behind my question was whether I could save £200 by delaying the application until I owned the plot or even later when I was paying council tax.

 

Short answer is likely "no". You can't pay householder fees on anything involving a new build, whether a replacement dwelling or a new build on a vacant plot.

[Ferdinand]

This is similar in some respecks to the conversation we were having about fees for written confirmation of fulfilment of Discharge of Planning Conditions a few weeks ago.

 

Here - potentially - be dragons.

 

Here:

 

[epsilonGreedy]

52 minutes ago, jack said:

Short answer is likely "no". You can't pay householder fees on anything involving a new build, whether a replacement dwelling or a new build on a vacant plot.

 

 

Ok tis good to know, getting clarity up front for an extra £200 will lead to some build process efficiencies.

 

I will double check with my local council because they do seem more relaxed than some councils highlighted in forum discussions here.