Gap in tile side overlap

[MJNewton]

I haven't been on the site for a while - I hope everyone is well. Apologies that it's a problem that brought me back...

 

Our semi-detached neighbours have just had done some roofing work done to fix a leak around their dormer. This required the removal of quite a few tiles, including the whole bottom row (on their side).

 

Looking out of our dormer window, and which the photo below shows, I've noticed there's now a bit of a gap in the side overlap where their tiles meet ours:

 

 

I got my ladders out at the weekend (my most feared tool - not a great fan of heights!) to take a closer look and was expecting (hoping!) that it'd just be a case of jiggling the tiles into place if they hadn't quite been seated properly...

 

 

However, this wasn't the case. No amount of jiggling was going to make a difference and so I gave up.

 

What I didn't spot whilst up there though, but which I can now see quite clearly in the first photo and from ground level too, is that their whole row of bottom tiles sits higher than ours. I actually think theirs are *too* high and it would not surprise me if in heavy rain they may find water overshooting over the gutter! That's not my concern though; I'm just worried about the gap we've end up with where our bottom rows join. Specifically, wind-driven rain (although I expect the felt would safely carry it into the gutter?) or even birds nesting?

 

With this situation in mind, what possible remedies might the roofer have to resolve this, other than removing and relaying with a batten (or whatever sits underneath) of matching thickness? Would any other remedy be considered something of a bodge? For example, how about a wedge of mortar in the gap similar to how the tiles running up the edge of the roof have in them?

 

Edited Tuesday at 19:49 by MJNewton

[Nickfromwales]

Knock next door and state your concerns. Ask what work was done and show them the pics. 
 

The roofer should have replaced like-for-like, as these are clearly historic installations which when new worked perfectly well.

 

They may have added a tray and / or changed to a bigger batten (or doubled up) vs just renewing like for like at the last course, which was likely a knee jerk from doing new roofs in isolation vs retrospective repairs.

 

Needs correcting as heavy / driven rain is defo going to get in there and the felt is not meant to deal with that. Snow (melting) will likely be way more of a concern. 

[MJNewton]

Thanks Nick. Yeah, I do intend to speak to the neighbours. Whilst we're not close, mostly due to being like ships in the night really, the relationship is fine and so I don't anticipate any problems other than awkwardness of what to say and be asking for!

 

In terms of remedy, do you think it would be unreasonable/unrealistic for them to be relaying the last row such that it sits flush? I wouldn't be surprised if the roofer might think that's too much effort and opt to do something else like lift my tile slightly to make up most of the gap, then the next one slightly less and so on until the gap is absorbed across a series of tiles!

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, MJNewton said:

Thanks Nick. Yeah, I do intend to speak to the neighbours. Whilst we're not close, mostly due to being like ships in the night really, the relationship is fine and so I don't anticipate any problems other than awkwardness of what to say and be asking for!

 

In terms of remedy, do you think it would be unreasonable/unrealistic for them to be relaying the last row such that it sits flush? I wouldn't be surprised if the roofer might think that's too much effort and opt to do something else like lift my tile slightly to make up most of the gap, then the next one slightly less and so on until the gap is absorbed across a series of tiles!

That’s a ‘him’ problem, but he cannot start interfering with your property to jerry rig a solution as a means to an end.

 

Go knock the door and start the ball rolling by showing the pics. 

[Mr Punter]

There are a few on that bottom row that are not sitting nicely.  That is quite a kick up.

[MJNewton]

Just spoke with the neighbours... We took in a parcel for them today so that pretty much forced the issue!

 

He took it perfectly fine, and did admit to not actually having looked at the roof in any detail since the work was done (oh to be so chilled about such things, compared to me scrutinising every last detail!) but looking at it now agreed his tiles do now sit up high. I got the impression he didn't seem too concerned about my projected concern of him potentially having overshoot in heavy rain, but he did recognise the issue about my gap. He asked for my photos and will get in touch with the roofer so let's see what happens next.

 

Something else he mentioned was that they had a dry ridge fitted and so I am wondering if that means the roofer might also have fitted an over fascia eaves vent like this one to complement it, and this would explain why the tiles now sit higher:

 

 

Incidentally, I fired off an email to the tile manufacturer about the side gap and their response was short and sweet:

 

Quote

Interlocking tiles such as the ones on your roof are designed, as the name suggests, to interlock together to achieve weather tightness, if not there is a risk of water being driven into the gaps and onto the underlay below.

 

Obviously this doesn't tell us anything we didn't know, but at least it is coming from a position of authority.

Edited yesterday at 17:56 by MJNewton

[MJNewton]

An update sooner than expected!

 

The neighbour has heard straight back from the roofer and he's said ventilation strips have indeed been fitted, and he's working in the area on Friday so will come round and sort it then. Luckily I'll be working from home!

 

I know it's a 'him' problem but given that it's not an oversized/doubling-up battening issue (that could be replaced by ones of the correct size) I feel like the only thing he can really do with the inevitable gap is fill it with something. That sounds okay, I suppose? It is afterall likely what I was going to do if the roofer remained incommunicado. Please do play devil's advocate with me though.

Edited yesterday at 17:45 by MJNewton

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, MJNewton said:

An update sooner than expected!

 

The neighbour has heard straight back from the roofer and he's said ventilation strips have indeed been fitted, and he's working in the area on Friday so will come round and sort it then. Luckily I'll be working from home!

 

I know it's a 'him' problem but given that it's not an oversized/doubling-up battening issue (that could be replaced by ones of the correct size) I feel like the only thing he can really do with the inevitable gap is fill it with something. That sounds okay, I suppose? It is afterall likely what I was going to do if the roofer remained incommunicado. Please do play devil's advocate with me though.

He could remove the ventilation strip, as you don't have / need one, ergo neither does the neighbour.

 

I am guessing he has put these in in ignorance, as if the ridge is not ventilated then there cannot be any adventitious airflow. I'd say to ask for them to be removed, not just some crappy mortar mix packed into the gaps......IMHO this is a bodge fix and I wouldn't be happy with it at all.

[MJNewton]

Their dry ridge has ventilation built into (under) it so presumably airflow coming through their eaves strips does now have an exit path.

 

When I suspected we had possible condensation in our loft I just fitted felt lap vents and that seemed to do the trick and so this would've likely been sufficient for them and I would've suggested trying it had they mentioned they had an issue. I think the breathable felt we've got in these roofs is all well and good when new, but as it gets dirty I think it inevitably loses some/all of that breathability.

[saveasteading]

13 hours ago, MJNewton said:

will come round and sort it then. Luckily I'll be working from home.

He has consciously left a bodge, expecting nobody would notice. 

 

This because very few people check roof work because it is out of sight and reach.

 

I suspect his plan will be to wiggle it and your tiles about and/or stuff in some sand and cement.

 

Being there shows him he has to do a proper job and not harm your house in any way.

Be bold and ask him his intentions and tell him that you want to see the finished work. 

Don't publish it here but take pictures of his van and him in action.

 

I'm not the expert on here , but my bodge would be to try to lift your tile to lock in, and stuff a wedge under it.

Not while up a ladder! Others here may know a proper solution.

[Oz07]

If his vents sit 25 or 30mm on top of fascia thats where you problem is. You could get him to cut a fillet 30mm to nothing over the length of a few tiles say 1m and fix to top of your fascia. Or you could have the over fascia vents extended along your fascia. Or neighbours fascia could be dropped the thickness of the vents but seems extreme. 

[MJNewton]

Thank you for the continued input guys. It has really helped offset my temptation to avoid confrontation and risk to neighbour relations etc and instead to pull up my big boy pants and do what is right. Having slept on it I do think that the awkwardness of these conversations is a direct result of them not having taking place before/during the work where we could have discussed options and agreed on a mutually-acceptable approach being taken, and so I mustn't let that awkwardness dictate what I do now the issue has only come to rise after the work has finished and the scaffolding down.

 

My current position is that I accept that the neighbours roof does not have to be identical to ours but, where differences do exist, the bottom line is that any such changes and detail overall should not negatively our roof/property. This brings the focus of the issue to the intersection of the two roofs and here we've got two options: 1) a tapered design such that by the time the neighbour's roof reaches ours it is of the exact same design and format so that the interlocking tiles naturally do what they do, or less desirably, 2) where a step change must/does occur that detail should surely be on the neighbour's side of the boundary line. The latter isn't been said from a position of stubbornness but rather recognition of the fact that *if* this design detail should ever fail in the future then regardless of who is impacted by it the responsibility for resolving it preaumably ultimately boils down to which side of the boundary line it sits. We might only be talking a few inches either way but I'm thinking that distinction must still exist? I'm all for taking a 50:50 approach to shared property issues but that is where both parties might equally be to 'blame' for whatever has gone wrong, but in this instance it doesn't feel like something I should be accepting given that the 'blame' falls wholly to the 'new' (neighbours) roof.

 

Incidentally, whilst I have used the term 'neighbours' above I am really not aiming this at them. The poor souls having gone with a roofer which they thought was good (and, to be fair, I liked him too following the several conversations I had with them - I even offered them brews when the neighbours were out despite me not being the customer!) and they trusted him to do the work properly.

Edited 8 hours ago by MJNewton

[MJNewton]

Further to my request to the manufacturer about how best to deal with a side gap they said the following:

 

Quote

To get the tiles to interlock together is not going to be easy to do as the ones along the eaves course on your property will need to lifted to the same height as the eaves course on your neighbours.

 

A lead flashing could be installed over the interlocks long enough to go under the headlap of the tiles above, this would stop wind driven rain, but there will still be gap at the bottom of the interlock which will need to filled to prevent the entry of birds etc.. I would put this forward to the Contractor that comes out and have a look and see what they think. 

 

Sounds like it might be better than mortar or roofer's putty which is what I am expecting the roofer to offer up? There are at least other lead flashings already up on the roof at other junctions. In fact, a part of me is even thinking that if they'd done that in the first place I might actually have been impressed that they'd treated the resulting gap and not just left it open like a cowboy would've.

 

I think I'd still want it on the other side of the boundary line though so it's not 'my house' that has to explain what that flashing up there is for (e.g. following a homebuyer's survey).

Edited 4 hours ago by MJNewton