Hob Positoning

[Spinny]

Any advice regarding forward/backward positioning of an induction hob ?

I attach the template drawing which has a hob cutout 503mm wide for a 526mm hob in 655mm wide 30mm quartz. Plan says cut out goes 95mm from front edge and then 57mm from the back edge. We were thinking push the hob back so the extractor in the wall unit above works most effectively - are we over doing it ? is there any reason to make the gap at the back larger ?

 

Will be cut out from a single piece with no join - so hopefully 57mm quartz strip at the back is wide enough not to break or crack ?

[G and J]

I'd feel really nervous about how this is going...ditto for your hob post.....how can you confirm the measurements are "right" if you don't have measuring positions, same equipment, all the facts about what can and can't be done...?

 

In contrast out fitters came to template (physical sheet material took circa 2 hours for kitchen and utility) and that was the point at which we discussed finer detail such as how far back tap was etc.

 

From that point in it was their measurements; their job to match slab to the measurements; their risk. We were never asked to "sign off" other than confirming the slab we had chosen.

 

Are they actually asking you to confirm the drawings or are you acting out of caution?

 

Btw very similar sinks (Franke) 5mm overhang all round (no accessories on sink ledge). Our old place was closer to flush (was indeed a stonemason who branched out into worktops) ....we prefer the larger over hang as, to us, it appears more finished.

[Nickfromwales]

6 hours ago, Spinny said:

We were thinking push the hob back so the extractor in the wall unit above works most effectively - are we over doing it ?

Yes. You are overdoing it.
 

And another completely unnecessary new thread, whereas you should have just carried on in the existing one!!!! I have suggested this a number of times, but you seem intent to ignore the polite nudges.

[Mr Punter]

These worktops often arrive with the cut out not fully formed, to give it more strength when moving and fitting.

[-rick-]

5 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

These worktops often arrive with the cut out not fully formed, to give it more strength when moving and fitting.

 

And even then I'd still want to position the hob so that the worktop has plenty of meat front and back. If it's a fairly standard size one then that means in the middle.

 

Don't want some teenager/contractor/other putting their weight in the wrong place only for it to go snap. (Yes, when installed the underframe is supposed to be able to fully support it but if you narrow one edge to a thin strip murphy will intervene).

[-rick-]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

And another completely unnecessary new thread, whereas you should have just carried on in the existing one!!!! I have suggested this a number of times, but you seem intent to ignore the polite nudges.

 

I think this is debatable. While an 80-page thread called 'Spinny's Kitchen Saga' might be quite a read, separate threads are more searchable and this forum needs people coming here after searching for answers.

[Spinny]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

And another completely unnecessary new thread

OK, I only used a new thread because the question was a different one i.e. hob position rather than undermounted sinks.

Yes they are related in being about kitchen layout etc, but I am only trying to think of future users that might be searching about similar questions. And also that someone with an input to offer on hobs may not bother looking at a topic on sinks. I am thinking long meandering topics where the question keeps changing from one particular thing to another over many pages are potentially frustrating to read through ?

 

There are lots of specific questions around worktops so maybe I should have started a topic called 'My various questions about kitchen worktops etc' but had a view it was more focussed to have one topic for one particular question.

 

So only done out of trying to ring fence particular questions a bit. Sorry if I have the wrong idea, any guidance on when to let one topic meander away from the title, or when to open another is welcome ?

[Nickfromwales]

35 minutes ago, -rick- said:

 

I think this is debatable. While an 80-page thread called 'Spinny's Kitchen Saga' might be quite a read, separate threads are more searchable and this forum needs people coming here after searching for answers.

It’s also for context where this (imo) would have sat quite comfortably. 🤷‍♂️.

 

Perhaps I’ll stop bumping my gums and instead insert some links so there’s a trail of breadcrumbs.

[-rick-]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

Perhaps I’ll stop bumping my gums and instead insert some links so there’s a trail of breadcrumbs.

 

All these related threads being tagged 'Spinny's Kitchen' or similar might be good.

[Spinny]

There is a support batten against the back wall, and the fitters have asked for another batten to be fitted to support the worktop in front of the hob. Particularly because we have a metal finger pull strip for handleless drawers at the front which is somewhat thin and bendy, and no MDF or chipboard cross piece above the top drawer.

 

Maybe I should get them to add another piece of batten onto the front of the rear batten to thicken it up to give more support.

 

Another small thing that cropped up concerns the cut out size. In the product install instructions it had 500mm with +3 superscript. I asked the fitters what this meant exactly as I assumed it was a tolerance but wondered why it didn't say +/- 3. They said it indicated a maximum size 3mm larger and have now specified 503mm on the template drawing. Googling a bit more about this I think they have this slightly wrong. My understanding is the cut out need to be min 500 and max 503, therefor anyone cutting should be aiming for say 501.5mm to allow the maximum possible cutting error of +/- 1.5mm. Small stuff but if they turned up with the worktop and it had an actual cut out of 504mm and it caused a hob fitting problem it could be consequential - there is presumably a reason the manufacturer has specified +3, and not +4 or +5.

 

Also for some bizarre reason they have the hob 1.5mm off centre ?

 

My actual length measurements are 2203mm at front and 2204mm at rear, so they are planning to cut the quartz 4mm short - 2mm at each end. Having no prior experience of kitchen fits means I am wondering EXACTLY what they will fill the gap with. Ideally I guess it would be something flexible and perfectly colour matched to the quartz, or possibly to the kitchen panel. But worse case you get someone wielding a sealant gun that sticks an 8mm bead down in 'grey' or 'white' without using any masking tape.

 

I know I am sweating on detail again but I have had too many bad experiences to just trust pro's I have never used before.

 

They do have a policy of those that template return to do the fit. In theory good, although it might make the fitters overly conservative when templating. They started out wanting 10mm overhangs everywhere - which isn't their design decision to make.

[-rick-]

1 minute ago, Spinny said:

Also for some bizarre reason they have the hob 1.5mm off centre ?

 

🤣

 

Definitely over thinking this one. That's well within fitting tolerance. Whoever fits it on the day will get it approx there and if you are measuring the the millimetre after it's installed you are going to be disappointed. If it looks good, it is good and you won't be able to see 1.5mm by eye.

 

 

1 minute ago, Spinny said:

My actual length measurements are 2203mm at front and 2204mm at rear, so they are planning to cut the quartz 4mm short - 2mm at each end. Having no prior experience of kitchen fits means I am wondering EXACTLY what they will fill the gap with. Ideally I guess it would be something flexible and perfectly colour matched to the quartz, or possibly to the kitchen panel. But worse case you get someone wielding a sealant gun that sticks an 8mm bead down in 'grey' or 'white' without using any masking tape.

 

You need a bit of wiggle room as everything moves with temperature and at different rates. 2mm each end will be sealed with a sealant. Obviously, it's an area when you can give clear instructions/supervision. "I want a minimally visible sealant bead". 2mm is going to be required to fit the slab.

 

1 minute ago, Spinny said:

I know I am sweating on detail again but I have had too many bad experiences to just trust pro's I have never used before.

 

Understandable, but think in this case your expectations are a little high and could maybe get you in trouble. Focus on the visual result and not the millimetre. Increased precision increases cost exponentially (or more).

[Nickfromwales]

18 minutes ago, Spinny said:

My understanding is the cut out need to be min 500 and max 503, therefor anyone cutting should be aiming for say 501.5mm to allow the maximum possible cutting error of +/- 1.5mm.

 

18 minutes ago, Spinny said:

Also for some bizarre reason they have the hob 1.5mm off centre ?

Oh dear lord……..  

[Spinny]

18 minutes ago, -rick- said:

Focus on the visual result and not the millimetre.

Yes, thanks Rick, good words.

 

It is just the small stuff that makes you doubt - if someone is getting one cut off centre for no reason - why can't they see that themselves, especially when presenting me ridiculous pseudo accurate measurements to 100th of a millimetre. It is slightly wrong, but very precisely so, sir.

 

I know it won't be mm perfect, but like a photon through a pair of slits, if you stop looking it will smudge out in unexpected ways 🤣

 

You know my concrete floor was only 12mm too high, but necessitated changing the heating system, my bifold was 10mm wrong (but actually wasn't) and had a carpenter chiseling down a 3.5m timber for no good reason. It's Britain sir, and it's wonky - move to Germany sir.

Edited 5 hours ago by Spinny

[saveasteading]

24 minutes ago, Spinny said:

hob 1.5mm off centre ?

I think you have to change your expectations or nothing will suit.

 

I don't know when I last used a decimal mm in construction. 

I appreciate it may be a mindset and things like cutlery laid approximately can be an issue. 

I'd be interested to know what measurement would have been acceptable 1mm? 0.5mm?

 

Measuring tapes aren't even that accurate. pencils get thicker as you draw a line. Saw blades have thicknesses, materials are variable, hands are not machines.

 

There will be many worse discrepancies in your house should you choose to look for them.

Nobody else will notice.

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

8 minutes ago, Spinny said:

ridiculous pseudo accurate measurements to 100th of a millimetre.

That's someone who doesn't understand numbers.

Slide rule use proved useful in Engineering as it was all approximate and required the undersranding of significant figures.

 

Btw have you noticed the "loose" end on a steel measuring tape? I don't usually worry about using it " correctly" but there is a variable straight away.

[Nickfromwales]

38 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Btw have you noticed the "loose" end on a steel measuring tape? I don't usually worry about using it " correctly" but there is a variable straight away.

That is to compress by the thickness of the tab on the end, when measuring against something, and the opposite happens when you stretch it by hooking the tab and pulling on the tape.
 

That’s not loose by mistake, it’s by design, and functions specifically to add / remove that 1.5mm or so .

[Spinny]

OK Yes I am fully aware of measurement errors, and manufacturing or building tolerances etc. etc.

 

But IMO that isn't really a reason to just wave your hands too much, go whatever, and ignore things. Otherwise things can escalate. Be as precise as you reasonably can and they won't escalate.

 

Specify 1.5mm wrong on position, and 1.5mm wrong on incorrectly understanding tolerance, cut 2mm wrong, shift the worktop along 2mm when fitting - get unlucky and you are 7mm wrong now. Maybe it still won't matter, or maybe something will foul and someone is £7k down and 2 months late.

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

by design,

My point is that most people don't know that. Or that tapes come in 3 degrees of accuracy and some are beyond that and just wrong.

 

 

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, Spinny said:

Be as precise as you reasonably can and they won't escalate.

 

Agreed. This needs prior discussion with all your teams to agree what reasonable means.

[Spinny]

Anyone using something like this ?

 

https://youtu.be/w7lcKytNIS4?si=3O13yhXyxCN8vYHi

 

[Nickfromwales]

18 minutes ago, Spinny said:

Anyone using something like this ?

 

https://youtu.be/w7lcKytNIS4?si=3O13yhXyxCN8vYHi

 

Not for the last 35 years, and not for the next however many I have left to go.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Spinny said:

something like this ?

 

No. Any big brand tape will be good.

They cost £4, work well, fit in your pocket and it doesn't matter much when it disappears or you drop it.

[Mr Punter]

17 hours ago, Spinny said:

a hob cutout 503mm wide for a 526mm hob in 655mm wide

 

Be very wary as width, length and depth are often confused.  It is errors such as these that can lead to screwups.

 

For kitchens I consider length and width to be side-to-side and depth to be front-to-back.  Height and thickness can also cause confusion.

 

With some of the induction hobs in a 600 deep worktop there is often only 50mm remaining front and back after the cutout.

 

 

[Spinny]

49 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

it doesn't matter much when it disappears

Haha, as with odd socks, there is somebody somewhere that must have a few million tape measures by now.