'Where We Live' - a survey of the decline in British housing.

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

happened here with the Highland Clearances, but we've evolved a bit since then.

I do wonder if we really have, or maybe polarisation is human nature when resources get scarce.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

when resources get scarce.

Off topic.

You are excused not knowing this history.

It was not a shortage, (The Irish Potato famine was) :but greed of the ruling classes.

As perhaps is the Chinese case.

It was after the Union of Parliaments, and many of the Highland Chieftains/ lords, now resident in London, became readily persuaded that they'd be rich if they abandoned the community / clan system, evicted the people and put sheep on the land.  The people were loaded on ships with few belongings. Hence the very large numbers of Highland names in NE US and Canada. Some Lords were brutal, others less so.

"Such a parcel of rogues in a nation" by Burns refers to Scots not English Lords.

[MikeSharp01]

7 hours ago, JohnMo said:

"greater good". 

Utilitarianism has some fundamental downsides I think such as how do you assess greater good anyway. It it how all the people see it or just a few who say "this will be for the greater good" alternatively is it for the greater good now or later - hard to know!

[saveasteading]

And good for who  (whom?) . like in trickle down theory  / jam tomorrow / Brexit.

 

 

[JohnMo]

18 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Utilitarianism has some fundamental downsides I think such as how do you assess greater good anyway. It it how all the people see it or just a few who say "this will be for the greater good" alternatively is it for the greater good now or later - hard to know!

Good, point, but NIMBY's aren't a good solution either. They just cost a load of tax payers money and everything takes an age. Leading to a great deal stagnation - Just as the UK is at present, slowly turning into a mess.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Just as the UK is at present, slowly turning into a mess

I have been hearing that all my adult life, numbers don't back it up though.

[Indy]

 

11 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I have been hearing that all my adult life, numbers don't back it up though.

Agreed. I will admit that on balance - it still remains one of the best places on the planet despite the doom and gloom that we get blasted from every media outlet.

 

However, I have noticed a real degradation on a number of fronts since 2008. Public services, wage growth, levels of taxation, investment in infrastructure - these are all worse in a material way. 

[JohnMo]

7 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I have been hearing that all my adult life, numbers don't back it up though.

Your the man with numbers - show us.

Pot holes

Waiting lists

School success

Wealth difference from the rich in society to the rest us.

Generally thing that matters to normal people

7 hours ago, Indy said:

have noticed a real degradation on a number of fronts since 2008. Public services, wage growth, levels of taxation, investment in infrastructure - these are all worse in a material way.

Those are the things I spoke about. Without those being maintained the country slowly goes down the toilet - if you find a public one anymore.

Edited 5 hours ago by JohnMo

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Your the man with numbers - show us.

I am not your secretary.

[JohnMo]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I am not your secretary.

Is that code for I can't be arsed. Or I can't find anything that supports my assumptions?

[saveasteading]

9 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

have been hearing that all my adult life

Indeed.

It's what we hear and some want to believe.

The average person has never been so well off, long lived, healthy.

Not many thousands killed in wars or crippled by disease.

 

Pot holes are caused by bigger, powerful and numerous cars... into the seventies there were few cars.

 

I do wonder why these invented claims of it being the worst of times are so popular.

It seems to sell the Mail and Express though..... what miserable reads, for determinedly unhappy people, sponsored by oligarchs to keep us in our places?

[saveasteading]

11 hours ago, JohnMo said:

NIMBY's aren't a good solution either.

Nimbys are other people I don't agree with.

Everyone is a nimby to some degree.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Is that code for I can't be arsed. Or I can't find anything that supports my assumptions?

Neither, just that any figures present to you will not be accepted or the question gets changed.

There is the whole of the ONS for you to explore, but I suspect you would not trust the numbers.

 

 

 

[JohnMo]

13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Neither, just that any figures present to you will not be accepted or the question gets changed.

There is the whole of the ONS for you to explore, but I suspect you would not trust the numbers.

Me thinks you miss understand me. No the very opposite is true, from proper sources I do trust the figures - ONS is one of them.

 

We are a wealthy society, look at the amount of pretty new cars are on the road these days compared to the 70s. But the money allocated to councils, roads NHS, schools isn't well spent. So as @Indy points out stuff is going in the wrong direction.

 

Your rose tinted specs may not allow you see it.

 

26 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Pot holes are caused by bigger, powerful and numerous cars... into the seventies there were few cars.

All very true. But certainly in Scotland we have almost the same road system as the 70s. Back to one of my original points, change is way too slow, not helped by continued changing of plans to keep many a NIMBY happy. Which causes delays and additional cost. Aberdeen has a nice peripheral road now, but it only 20+ years to get started on building it.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Right now, there is a bit on the radio about local councils and flags.

Someone compared the money spent on enforcing and prosecuting people that hang flags on lampposts to the lack of pot hole repairs.

Potholes, or flags, are not an indicator of 'better offness'.

 

 

But this is from worldometer.

PPP = Purchasing Power Parity.  The figures are in US currency so that it is easier to compare countries.

It shows how as the population has got bigger, we have to work less to buy the same 'stuff'. 

 

[saveasteading]

32 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

additional cost.

Delays can be overcome, especially in a dictatorship where, not even compulsory purchase, but a dozer would appear and drive through whatever land or houses were in the way.

I've a feeling that nimby blamers are generally comfortable that their property, location, lifestyle  is safe but some more bypasses would suit their  journeys.... but not spoil their view/ convenience/ neighbourhood.

Or simply raise taxes. But that won't be on the very rich who have the money guarded.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

nimby blamers

I am a NIMBY blamer, we have had land compulsory purchase for road improvements, no issues with that as is for the greater good, less people being killed on a road next to us which is an accident black spot.

 

Main electric line is being improved again near us to help move wind generated electric from A to B, we are within the area of notification so it's all pretty near to us. Again no complaints from me it's for the greater good, but plenty of others who can't see, won't be affected by the changes are complaining.

[saveasteading]

Don't assume it is about you. It was a general statement.

Those are a bit like the the dictatorship extreme though aren't they. Except that they have public consultations for a tick box, then proceed. You can't do anything about it. Complaining or constructive suggestions  would have no effect.

And your road is less dangerous. (No idea of course if it affects your own view, amenity, property value). So I'm not sure that counts.