Architects - Hmphhh

[Mulberry View]

Following on from our Architectural woes (we had to part ways with our original Architect). I instructed an Architect to handle the re-detailing of our roof as the Zinc scheme that was installed 2 years ago has to be ripped off.

 

The assignment was a fixed scope, to provide replacement details to cover all areas of the Zinc roof but with Sika SGK membrane, I had obtained a spec from Sika which was in hand. I was very open and candid about the as-built structure and the pain points. I provided lots of photos, plans and a detailed narrative all in advance of the quote.  I explicitly told him that I needed decisive details, as I don't have the headspace to do this myself. The Architect quoted, I agreed and paid 50% up front as requested. The suggested timeframe was 4-6 weeks.

 

It quickly emerged that the Architect was not confident. He flitted between solutions and relied upon me far too much to back him up. 5-6 months later, we still did not have a workable set of details that were efficiently buildable and conformed with Sikas standard details. After much patience, I called a halt and raised a dispute. After some backwards and forwards emails, the Architect has agreed to waive the remaining 50% fee, but insists that the 50% up front is payment for time spent.

 

This is an example of the details produced...

 

 

 

There is far more timber in here than the alternative detailing and much of that is not practical in my view. Besides, the Aluminium edge drip trim arrangement doesn't conform to Sika's detailing and for their own trim that is the only one they allow.

 

This is the alternative that I now have in hand (not quite finished but you get the idea). Far simpler and compliant with the manufacturers requirements....

 

 

As I understand it, payment for time spent is not a thing with fixed-scope/fixed-fee work? Nothing about payment for time spent was discussed in a email "contract". I have nothing usable from his detailing and have since found a good Architect who has already pretty much re-detailed it proving it can be done. I'm not prepared to let the £2400 I've paid this guy just slip away.

 

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

[ToughButterCup]

Lovely house and design. Interesting Insta account.   Your question may well be better directed to legal experts.

[torre]

The fixed scope and the background of that scope being defined in the context of costly issues with your previous roof may well weigh in your favour in any action, but there'll still be risk in any court action.

 

Have you checked whether you have legal cover in your home insurance or self build insurance? If so, they may offer advice.

[Gus Potter]

 

 

On 20/05/2026 at 11:43, Mulberry View said:

It quickly emerged that the Architect was not confident. He flitted between solutions and relied upon me far too much to back him up. 5-6 months later, we still did not have a workable set of details that were efficiently buildable and conformed with Sikas standard details. After much patience, I called a halt and raised a dispute. After some backwards and forwards emails, the Architect has agreed to waive the remaining 50% fee, but insists that the 50% up front is payment for time spent.

Ok. A few points. You'll see lots of stuff on BH that looks easy until you try and meet all your requirements. Below is a bespoke detail of mine, your detail is more simple on the face of it and I can see you are asking why there is so much timber. I have posted this to let folk see how hard and how much thought and experience you need to have to navigate your way round this and then produce something that is buildable. The screen shot is just that, the drawings are more defined and the colour easier to understand.  The key points for you are that I'm using the top sheet and bottom of OSB to cantilever out to support the roof edge. I can prove this works as an SE. But you have to cut your Architect a bit of slack as they can't really be expected to know that you can cantilever OSB for example. 

 

On 20/05/2026 at 11:43, Mulberry View said:

5-6 months later,

I do this stuff a lot and work with informed Clients such as youself. Often we disagree at the outset, then we work our way towards a solution. Disagreement is healthy if managed. 

 

You have had a hard time with your roof, I've seen a lot of your posts and know it's not been fun for you. But the Architect in the round should have been more proactive, lifted the phone.. and you could have talked through the detailing and design difficulties. A site visit would have helped? 

 

As an aside it astounds me how many folk under the age of say 40 are so poor at communicating, this is prevalent in the SE and Architect profession. 

 

Anyway. @Mulberry View keep your head up. At the end of the day you are a domestic Client. If your Architect has not kept you informed and excercised reasonable skill and care then you have a good case not to make any payment to them. I do a lot of bespoke design. That means that lot's of stuff I do I've not done before. I use first principle design, that applies to SE stuff and also Architectural detailing. 

 

Now it looks you are going to have to have another go at this? I would try and see if you can mend the bridges with your Architect. If that fails then at least you can show you have made every attempt to resovle the issues you have. 

 

This is the thing I love about BH is that folk are innovating and I love chipping in to make it work technically at sensible cost. I hope someone can get something out of my detail that they can use / adapt. 

 

 

[Mulberry View]

11 hours ago, torre said:

The fixed scope and the background of that scope being defined in the context of costly issues with your previous roof may well weigh in your favour in any action, but there'll still be risk in any court action.

 

Have you checked whether you have legal cover in your home insurance or self build insurance? If so, they may offer advice.

 

Sadly, to our detriment, we do not have legal cover. This emerged during the early stages of the legal action that is still ongoing with the defective Zinc roof. We live and learn!

[Mulberry View]

10 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

 

 

Ok. A few points. You'll see lots of stuff on BH that looks easy until you try and meet all your requirements. Below is a bespoke detail of mine, your detail is more simple on the face of it and I can see you are asking why there is so much timber. I have posted this to let folk see how hard and how much thought and experience you need to have to navigate your way round this and then produce something that is buildable. The screen shot is just that, the drawings are more defined and the colour easier to understand.  The key points for you are that I'm using the top sheet and bottom of OSB to cantilever out to support the roof edge. I can prove this works as an SE. But you have to cut your Architect a bit of slack as they can't really be expected to know that you can cantilever OSB for example. 

 

I do this stuff a lot and work with informed Clients such as youself. Often we disagree at the outset, then we work our way towards a solution. Disagreement is healthy if managed. 

 

You have had a hard time with your roof, I've seen a lot of your posts and know it's not been fun for you. But the Architect in the round should have been more proactive, lifted the phone.. and you could have talked through the detailing and design difficulties. A site visit would have helped? 

 

As an aside it astounds me how many folk under the age of say 40 are so poor at communicating, this is prevalent in the SE and Architect profession. 

 

Anyway. @Mulberry View keep your head up. At the end of the day you are a domestic Client. If your Architect has not kept you informed and excercised reasonable skill and care then you have a good case not to make any payment to them. I do a lot of bespoke design. That means that lot's of stuff I do I've not done before. I use first principle design, that applies to SE stuff and also Architectural detailing. 

 

Now it looks you are going to have to have another go at this? I would try and see if you can mend the bridges with your Architect. If that fails then at least you can show you have made every attempt to resovle the issues you have. 

 

This is the thing I love about BH is that folk are innovating and I love chipping in to make it work technically at sensible cost. I hope someone can get something out of my detail that they can use / adapt. 

 

 

 

Thanks for this @Gus Potter. I'm a very very patient guy. I am possibly too far into the details, but I gave this guy so many chances, we communicated loads. I provided additional photos and dimensions as were needed to articulate the as-built structure. I spent FAR too long trying to mock layouts up in ChatGPT to try to further illustrate points I felt the Architect had missed. The fundamentals were missing though, without adherence to the standard details of the roofing system, we needed to go all the way back to square one and the passage of time thus far made it feel too risky to do with how weakly applied this guy was.

 

With the idea that the ZInc roof needs to be stripped, part of my brief was to try to retain the Plywood deck if possible, as "taking the lid off" and seeing daylight from inside again felt like too much regression and another layer of waste that might have been able to be avoided. I already have 170sqm of 200mm Celotex that I cannot reuse. This might be why he couldn't have oversailed the edge to provide a similar detail as the one you kindly posted. I also now realise he's not as experienced as I initially believed.

 

Keep in mind the total quote was £4000+VAT. FOUR THOUSAND POUNDS to provide a set of 6-8 details. Many people do not pay this for their whole Architectural package. I was desperately in need of help and believed this guy could take some of the stress off my shoulders. Turned out he just added to the ever-growing pile of nonsense that we're battling.

 

We've lost tens of thousands of pounds in this project on "leakage". Poor Architects and this whole roofing debacle being at the forefront. Those elements have BY FAR been harder than physically standing this place up, even at my experience level. Some of the things I have achieved in this build make me proud, dimensional accuracy, level and having 3 ground floor levels that are +/- 10mm from the planned levels being some of them. Why can't professional services take the pride in their work as standard and just do the right thing if the customer isn't happy (and brings justification)?

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Mulberry View said:

... Why can't professional services take the pride in their work as standard and just do the right thing if the customer isn't happy (and brings justification)?

 

Lack of:

- communication 

- emotional intelligence 

- effort 

- self worth