Why we need "Net zero"

[Beelbeebub]

9 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Why I think we should just have two taxes.

One on individual income, and the other a 'sin' tax.

Though there would be huge disagreement on what is considered a sin.

 

And what's considered an individual's income!

[Beelbeebub]

25 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

You've missed the point of what was being proposed (not by me I should point out - refer to post). You imply there would be multiple taxes. One single rate, applied in different ways. Income tax, Sales Tax, Profits Tax etc, etc, etc.

Sorry I don't follow?

 

Are you (or the op) saying there should one tax (let's say income tax) at a flat rate and no vat, no sales tax, capital gains tax, no IHT just individual income 

 

or that there should be multiple taxes but each one has exactly the same rate eg income tax is 20%, vat is 20%, capital gains tax is 20% and so on?

[SteamyTea]

17 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

What would the single rate be

That seems tricky on the face of it.

It would have to take in many factors such as growth, inflation, behaviour change etc.

I have not looked at the recent figures but seems to remember that about 40% of the countries GDP is taken as taxes. So about £1tn/year. I may have to look that up again as it was nearly 20 years ago I studied economics.

Most of the taxes are income tax, NI and VAT.

 

So under my system we could tax all incomes at just under 40% and fill in the gaps with my 'sin' taxes.

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

And what's considered an individual's income!

Every payment they receive.

So if you go to work, and earn £1600/month, £400 goes in tax.

If you rent a room, or house out, 40% goes.

If you sell your car, a painting, your home, 40% goes (consider that a wealth tax).

But you won't be paying a lot of secondary taxes like VAT, fuel duties, inheritance taxes, council tax, NI, 'net zero', etc.

 

Would make central government much more accountable as it would show how well they can spend our money.

 

[Beelbeebub]

31 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

 

If its a sales tax, yes.

Every business, no threshold.

You wouldn't

With no threshold, this is a moot point.

Ok so you're suggesting VAT/sales tax on every single business with ability no exemptions?

 

This is fine - I believe the French have no threshold and vat exemptions are much less common in Europe anyway.

 

But then you get into discussions about what exactly is a business?

 

How does sole trading work? How do you capture the guy doing an odd job for a neighbour and getting paid to cover materials?

 

Do I have to charge vat on selling my CDs on eBay?

 

Vat on selling your car privately?

 

Vat when you sell your house?

 

The reporting requirements around vat are pretty onerous already - is applying that t{ every single transaction between every single individual really the way to reduce complication and administrative burdens?

 

I'm just saying that simple taxes never stay simple.

 

Every single time you will need to make some sort of exemption or rule to stop your tax having undesirable effects.

 

And those are where the loopholes come in.

[Beelbeebub]

7 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Every payment they receive.

So if you go to work, and earn £1600/month, £400 goes in tax.

If you rent a room, or house out, 40% goes.

If you sell your car, a painting, your home, 40% goes (consider that a wealth tax).

But you won't be paying a lot of secondary taxes like VAT, fuel duties, inheritance taxes, council tax, NI, 'net zero', etc.

 

Would make central government much more accountable as it would show how well they can spend our money.

 

Right 

 

So I've just had some rewiring done.

 

Electrician charged me £800 and provided wire, consumer unit, sockets etc.  total value around £500

 

I pay him £800 and he has to pay £500 to his wholesaler and £320 to HMRC (40% tax).  He has now lost £20 for his day's work.

 

If I were to buy the parts directly for £500 and give them to him and he charge me £300 he'd only have to pay £60 in tax and make £240.

 

every single trade would become labour only.

 

Every shop would have to mark up all goods by at least 40% even if they were simply a warehouse/wholesaler.

 

Every single step in a chain will add 40% to the price so a lump of brass for £10 become £14 when it is sold to the machinist, he has to sell that £20 just to break even to the cabinet maker.  He in turn has to price that part at £28 to the kitchen show room.  They then have to charge that at £40 to the kitchen fitter who charges his client £56 for that brass handle.  And that assumes nobody charges anything for their time and overheads that's just the material cost moving through the chain!

 

[SteamyTea]

14 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

every single trade would become labour only.

 

Yes. Why would that be a problem?

14 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

Every single step in a chain will add 40% to the price so a lump of brass for £10 become £14 when it is sold to the machinist, he has to sell that £20 just to break even to the cabinet maker

Yes, but the prices of goods and running a factory would be reduced.

Also, the taxes would only be claimed on the workers wages i.e. like income tax is now.

Edited 16 minutes ago by SteamyTea

[Beelbeebub]

Are you proposing *only* to tax wage payments to individuals?

 

Ok if I work for a shop and they pay me £1,000 a month I pay £400 of that to HMRC

 

What if I form a company that provides my labour to another company? Is that taxed?  That company pays me a wage of £1 a month and I pay 40p to HMRC. The company provides a house, car, clothes and food for me for free.