Does anyone know of a wifi thermostat that still runs a schedule even if not connected to the 'cloud'

[Bramco]

Hi,

 

We only use ours thermostats (3), so we can run a schedule at night on the cheap rate (ASHP, OIG, insulated slab with UFH, just in case anyone asks). We also want/need to be able to connect remotely.

 

We replaced the original thermostats with some from TADOs which work OK for what we want, i.e. a dumb temperature limiter with the ability to run the schedule and remote access so we can override things if needed, check things are working OK and occasionally when its really cold run the ASHP for a few hours in the day to top the slab up.

 

To cut a long story short, we've been away and while we were away, one of the 3 thermostats occasionally lost wifi contact - that's OK you'd think but with TADO, if it happens just before a scheduled run, then the schedule isn't started. Also, if it fails during a scheduled run, it will stay on until it reconnects with wifi, or you manually override it. So basically the schedule is in the 'cloud'!  So the TADOs have to go.....

 

I've searched on-line and obvs there are loads out there that would do the schedule and the remote bit but reading the installation manuals and specs, none of them say anything about what happens if wifi is lost, i.e. whether the schedule is remote or local.

 

So does anyone have experience of/know about a thermostat that will run a schedule even if it's not connected to wifi and can also be accessed remotely.  Oh!  and it has to be available in black, otherwise I'm going to have to hack the tados with some kind of home brew..

 

Thanks in advance if you can help.

 

 

[JohnMo]

So you really need something that does remote access as an add-on, instead of out the box. Then everything is local, with the ability to look at stuff and adjust settings.

 

I have a polypipe system with room sensor main hub and and external WiFi access point. Everything is local, WiFi link of it works or doesn't has no effect on the work of the system.

 

Heatmiser and Wiser I believe are the same. You need an add-on for remote access.

 

Anything that mentions clouds walk away 

[SimonD]

20 minutes ago, Bramco said:

Oh!  and it has to be available in black,

 

That limits the options to about one. Although the Ideal thermostats are actually black on the face, but unlikely to work for you. What ASHP do you have and do they not have integrated controls?

 

There is a tendency for some European controls to default to on if there is a problem, either with connection or batteries. The Viessmann controls do the same as they say this removes the risk of freezing if there's a control failure.

 

So first I'd suggest the controls supplied by your ASHP manufacturer. Another, although not in black are the EPH CP4 controls as they function without internet connection and you can buy them with or without a wifi hub. The EPH controls can integrate with weather compensation curves etc. but it entirely depends on what you've got.

 

For UFH you've got Heatmiser which it seems pretty much every other UFH supplier uses/copies under white label.

[-rick-]

14 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Heatmiser and Wiser I believe are the same. You need an add-on for remote access.

 

Wiser works without the internet connection after being initially set up. I believe it's also possible to completely configure it through the Home Assistant add-on without using the Wiser app (going through the registration process) at all, though wouldn't recommend that.

 

It was good this xmas to be able to turn the heating back on at home in advance of getting back after being away a few days.

[-rick-]

3 minutes ago, -rick- said:

Wiser works without the internet connection after being initially set up. I believe it's also possible to completely configure it through the Home Assistant add-on without using the Wiser app (going through the registration process) at all, though wouldn't recommend that.

 

Though having read the OP now, Wiser doesn't seem right. All the thermostats, etc, are wireless (though not wifi). What I said was in relation to the main controller that sits next to the boiler. Not sure it would be a good idea with ASHP either.

[kandgmitchell]

For what it's worth we found Wiser quite useless. The central hub couldn't communicate with the "smart" thermostatic valves and "smart" plugs unless these were sited in the next room. It was nice idea being able to start the heating when on the way back from holiday say but beyond that it was hopeless. We ended up stripping it all out and selling the parts on ebay, going back to a simple time controller etc.

[Bramco]

43 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I have a polypipe system with room sensor main hub and and external WiFi access point.

 

Thanks John, I'd looked at those but wasn't sure it was all local...  I'll check them out again.

 

29 minutes ago, SimonD said:

So first I'd suggest the controls supplied by your ASHP manufacturer. Another, although not in black are the EPH CP4 controls as they function without internet connection and you can buy them with or without a wifi hub. The EPH controls can integrate with weather compensation curves etc. but it entirely depends on what you've got.

 

The ASHP is controlled (on/off) through the Heatmiser UFH controller. The ASHP itself is a Cool Energy unit, so no fancy thermostatic control just an internal interface and web interface to set the settings etc.

 

So the question is really about the zone thermostats...    And you're right about Home Assistant - I'm not going there...

 

Oh and I should have mentioned aesthetics - those EPH CP4 thermostats are some of the ugliest I've seen!!  🙂   But I will check the specs...

 

32 minutes ago, -rick- said:

Wiser works without the internet connection after being initially set up.

 

Wiser might work but I think it might be like the first ones we canned - you can't turn off 'smart' things like 'we'll get your house warm before you've programmed the heating to start!' - which for us, batch charging our insulated slab on cheap rate is unworkable as it would start at some 'random' ('clever' in it's mind) time outside the cheap rate window.

 

7 minutes ago, kandgmitchell said:

For what it's worth we found Wiser quite useless. The central hub couldn't communicate with the "smart" thermostatic valves and "smart" plugs unless these were sited in the next room. It was nice idea being able to start the heating when on the way back from holiday say but beyond that it was hopeless. We ended up stripping it all out and selling the parts on ebay, going back to a simple time controller etc.

 

We have friends who stripped theirs out as well...

 

Thanks everyone for chipping in.   I'll continue our searches and report back if I find anything that works.

[-rick-]

1 minute ago, Bramco said:

Wiser might work but I think it might be like the first ones we canned - you can't turn off 'smart' things like 'we'll get your house warm before you've programmed the heating to start!' - which for us, batch charging our insulated slab on cheap rate is unworkable as it would start at some 'random' ('clever' in it's mind) time outside the cheap rate window.

 

Clearly it's not for you, but just in case other people are looking, you can make wiser be dumb as a brick scheduler and thats all. It also lacks some of the more advanced smart features of others.

[Bramco]

@-rick- thanks for the clarification...

 

I might actually try the speedfit wired controller (I should have said our 3 thermostats are wired) -> https://www.johnguest.com/gb/en/products/jg-underfloor/heating-controls/wired-heating-controls/240v-wired-programmable-room-thermostat

 

This should be a drop in replacement for the TADO thermostats we have.

 

It looks like the 'smarts' can be turned off and each thermostat can be linked with the Speedfit app, i.e. it has wifi (2.4GHz) built in. So no RF to gateways etc.

 

£60 from screwfix in black so worth a punt.

 

PS @SimonD EDF do, do a black RF unit but it looks like you have to pair it with one of their programmable 4 zone controllers, or an RF manifold controller, so quite an outlay to see if it works.  And it's still RF which I think is the issue with the TADOs we have. 

[marshian]

I have Wiser - went down the whole micro management with  13 smart TRV’s (one for every room/rad) complicated schedules, heating only the rooms when they were needed - it worked but was horrible to manage.

 

All now removed and replaced with PICV and dumb TRV heads the Wiser hub remains with one roomstat - running 24/7 with WC - if I ever get round to connecting it to the boiler it will give me remote access to turn off or turn on the boiler and that’s all I need - however the boiler has it’s own app and it’s easier just to use that when I need to.

[Bramco]

Agree - keep it as simple as possible.

[SteamyTea]

If the problem is loosing local WiFi connection, would a dedicated router sort the problem?

[Bramco]

@SteamyTea - I've realised that it's actually an RF system to the TADO hub - so my original post should have said that.  Apologies for anyone thrown off track by that.

So any wifi fix wouldn't really help - the TADO hub has to be wired into an internet switch, or physically into a router.  We can't move our TADO hub, so hopefully the Speedfit solution will work.

[SteamyTea]

32 minutes ago, Bramco said:

I've realised that it's actually an RF system

Right.

 

Does still make me wonder if, with true WiFi connected system, if the routers are getting overloaded.  I know when I have more than 5 things connected to mine, it gets unreliable.  This has happened with both a real router and using my phone as a hot spot.  My newer hotspot phone has the option to specify how many devices can connect to it.  It has been much more reliable than my old phone (but let range) but I do only have about 3 things connected at any one time now.

 

I did play about with Node Red a while back, but got bored.