Today's heat pump install questions!`

[MikeSharp01]

 

Making progress we are but have a couple of questions.

 

1. Can we install the fill / flush valve:  outside by the heat pump, much easier to get at if we can, just needs good insulation around it and I guess I will still need a filling loop inside to pressurise the cicuit.
2. Each of the UFH loops have a control valve at the bottom and flow meter at the top which way do the control valves work, unscrew to open or screw down to open. The rep from the company did not know but their technical guy has yet to get back to me, thought there is bound to be an expert here somewhere.
3. Do I need Non return valves (NRVs) in the return circuits, UFH and Cylinder, before they re-join to go back to the Heat Pump, I can't see why I would but I saw somewhere doing it.

 

 

[JohnMo]

28 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Can we install the fill / flush valve:  outside by the heat pump

I wouldn't - you need to insulate well - not an easy job. If you are running glycol they are useful (but why would you) if not they are not needed.

 

29 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Each of the UFH loops have a control valve at the bottom and flow meter at the top which way do the control valves work, unscrew to open or screw down to open. The rep from the company did not know but their technical guy has yet to get back to me, thought there is bound to be an expert here somewhere.

Thought you were running an open system, if don't bother installing at all. The control valves push pin down to close off loop. The flow meter screw out to increase flow.

 

31 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Do I need Non return valves (NRVs) in the return circuits, UFH and Cylinder, before they re-join to go back to the Heat Pump, I can't see why I would but I saw somewhere doing it

No, your 3 port valve does that job for you.

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

I wouldn't - you need to insulate well - not an easy job. If you are running glycol they are useful (but why would you) if not they are not needed.

Thanks, how do you put inhibitor etc in, no Glycol.

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Thought you were running an open system, if don't bother installing at all. The control valves push pin down to close off loop. The flow meter screw out to increase flow.

We are but the manifold went in before we chose to go that way, only three loops no independent control of the loops other than by the flow meters which once set are left.

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

No, your 3 port valve does that job for you.

That is what I thought.

 

[JohnMo]

17 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Thanks, how do you put inhibitor etc in, no Glycol.

I used an express can direct in to the normal filling loop. Adey MC1+ Rapide.

 

Just remove the actuators and put back on the decorator caps. You unscrew them anti clockwise to remove.

 

 

[SimonD]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Can we install the fill / flush valve:  outside by the heat pump, much easier to get at if we can, just needs good insulation around it and I guess I will still need a filling loop inside to pressurise the cicuit.

 

As per @JohnMo, not outside. I do however always install them on a new installation, just next to the cylinder on thd return before the mag filter/strainer close to the filling loop. That way I can connect my thorough flush kit within a moment as you ideally need to flush the system twice, once with old heating system in place (if you have one) and then after installation and the system has run warm for a while. 

 

You can get them here https://naturalgreenheat.co.uk/product/bastion-28mm-fill-and-flush-valve/  at under 20 quid.

 

I used to always install a couple of ball valves on tails in an accessible position on flow and returns until I recently found that some idiot plumber had used them to pipe in a new radiator in a bathroom and used the one on the mains to supply cold to the same bathroom!

[MikeSharp01]

3 hours ago, SimonD said:

before the mag filter/strainer

Does that mean the stainer has to be inside as I have nowhere to put it inside. Pipework splits as it comes through the wall. 

[MikeSharp01]

Thinking about it I cannot put the valve inside either as it would have to be in one side or the other of the system. 

[JohnMo]

16 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Does that mean the stainer has to be inside as I have nowhere to put it inside. Pipework splits as it comes through the wall. 

I would have it inside. I removed mine, pressure drop was huge. Installed a proper full flow filter.

 

You can alway install something on each leg as it splits.

[MikeSharp01]

So I am going to have house them both outside.

[JohnMo]

Think we may need a sketch 

[SimonD]

Just now, JohnMo said:

Think we may need a sketch 

 

That was exactly what I was thinking 🙂 And/or photos with sketches ?

[MikeSharp01]

I think I have a full flow filter. It's this one: 

[MikeSharp01]

I will send some pictures in the morning. 

[MikeSharp01]

Here is the plant room mockup plumbing (used 28mm plastic segments to get lengths right and check scheme). I think I can get the filters into the utility room as indicated, I either do away with the fill flush or put it outside by the HP and work hard to insulate it.

 

[JohnMo]

Can't you get a filter in the vertical on the return after the tee? Then you only need one filter/strainer.

 

I would redo the tee before you go through the wall, to make space. Rotate tee horizontal, add filter, then loop up and out off wall or something like that. Your pipe is huge so no issue with pressure drops feeding 3 loops

[JohnMo]

You may have an issue with the UFH manifold return leg collecting air?

 

You will need a method to bleed the lower manifold and the piping run going to it.

 

Also the return line you need an expansion vessel and safety group, something like this, after the filter isolation valves

 

https://www.unventedcomponentseurope.com/expansion-vessel-25-litre-heating-fixing-t-bar-system-kit.html/?utm_source=Google Shopping&utm_campaign=Copy Unvented Components Europe&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=879559&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17178278874&gbraid=0AAAAADCTOYDo74Yo9HePQuEMKnbFqfg6s&gclid=CjwKCAiA86_JBhAIEiwA4i9JuybXCf4Z5_Ln7s1jNmeqsPnHSW3goCc-0aIt_EChTwzn0-N3iEqenxoC5xkQAvD_BwE

Edited 1 hour ago by JohnMo

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

I would redo the tee before you go through the wall, to make space. Rotate tee horizontal, add filter, then loop up and out off wall or something like that.

Sadly that would require a complete redesign and there are loads of other pipes - mains water, water softener etc, running in those areas I have not installed yet so two filters is easier.

 

58 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

You will need a method to bleed the lower manifold and the piping run going to it.

I have the connections for that coming  Monday to the far left of the straight run from the return manifold

 

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Also the return line you need an expansion vessel and safety group, something like this, after the filter isolation valves

That's already in the return line from the tank out of shot to the left. Its not 25l though it 8l which should more than cover the 70l of the system I worked out.