'Smart' heater vs heater with wifi controller?

[Crofter]

I'd like to add a simple wall mounted panel heater to our holiday cottage, so that we can keep it at a reasonable temperature when nobody is there, using the off peak overnight rate. At the moment we leave the heated towel rail on when the weather is cold, which is probably not the most cost effective method.

I was thinking of just buying a hardwired wifi relay (e.g. a 25A one from Shelly) but then I came across heaters with Wifi functionality built in. That's quite appealing because it would allow people in the cottage to use the heater as well.

I'm a bit worried about the longevity of any built in 'smart' technology though. Having owned an early Smart TV which after a couple of years was no longer supported, I feel that it's easy for the app to be updated and suddenly older tech no longer works. Maybe this could happen to the Shelly relay too, but at least in that case I only have to replace that one small component.

 

Any thoughts? And any recommendations?

[Crofter]

Anybody? Possibly not a common choice for the typical new build on here

[markc]

I would go simple heater (thermostat) and add any control for timer etc.

far too much stuff now that requires an app to use it.

i have just put two oil filled rads in my workshop but controlled with smart plugs for timing

Edited Monday at 10:57 by markc

[Crofter]

13 minutes ago, markc said:

I would go simple heater (thermostat) and add any control for timer etc.

far too much stuff now that requires an app to use it.

i have just put two oil filled rads in my workshop but controlled with smart plugs for timing

That's my gut feeling, but it doesn't let the person in the cottage operate it unless they download the app and log in.

[-rick-]

Keep it simple and use something like this?

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTGBD4.html

 

* Confirm with electricitian this is suitable

[markc]

3 hours ago, Crofter said:

That's my gut feeling, but it doesn't let the person in the cottage operate it unless they download the app and log in.

I use Tapo plugs and you can control by app but also turn on/off using the button, nice bit is that if you manually over-ride, the next schedule cycle reverts back to auto control.

[Crofter]

4 hours ago, -rick- said:

Keep it simple and use something like this?

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTGBD4.html

 

* Confirm with electricitian this is suitable

That doesn't do anything that a heater with built in controls wouldn't already do.

I'm looking to be able to remotely control the heater, but also allow on-site control, all without having to have two heaters.

[Crofter]

1 hour ago, markc said:

I use Tapo plugs and you can control by app but also turn on/off using the button, nice bit is that if you manually over-ride, the next schedule cycle reverts back to auto control.

That might be along the right lines, although having had a scare with an immersion heater that ran through a plug in timer, I'd much prefer hard wired.

Perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid, the immersion was 3kw and the heater would be much less. But I'd still prefer it if the user was unable to unplug it to charge their phone!

[-rick-]

2 minutes ago, Crofter said:

That doesn't do anything that a heater with built in controls wouldn't already do.

I'm looking to be able to remotely control the heater, but also allow on-site control, all without having to have two heaters.

 

Sorry, I actually misunderstood the features of that device.

 

I was thinking of something that had a built in timer (that wasn't adjustable by the guest) with a boost button that they could press for extra heat.

[cwr]

A Shelly relay will allow remote  (via app) control as well as a switch in the cottage for people there to use, it won't prevent a simple switch being used as well. 

[Crofter]

15 minutes ago, cwr said:

A Shelly relay will allow remote  (via app) control as well as a switch in the cottage for people there to use, it won't prevent a simple switch being used as well. 

I thought about simply adding a relay to a normal heater, the problem there is that a guest could turn it off and then I can't turn it back on.

I'd have to instruct my cleaner to leave the controls in the on position, but based on experience I wouldn't want to rely on that.

[-rick-]

Wire the shelly to a retractable switch and program it to boost for 1 hour if the switch is pressed.

[Crofter]

28 minutes ago, -rick- said:

Wire the shelly to a retractable switch and program it to boost for 1 hour if the switch is pressed.

Retractable?

[-rick-]

19 minutes ago, Crofter said:

Retractable?

 

Sorry, Retractive.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/switches/cat7320002?switchproducttype=retractive

[Crofter]

So. I bought a couple of 25A Shelly relays (https://www.shelly.com/products/ogemray-25a-smart-relay?&utm_source=awin&utm_medium=aff&utm_campaign=All Products - UK (copy)&utm_content=Ogemray Smart relay 25A&source=aw&sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=559319&awc=121796_1764752543_21b291805b055b2c57e400e59b2cbf3f)

One is now installed to control the immersion element, and seems to be doing a grand job.

 

Looks like I could set the other up to control a panel heater. And simply wire in a timed boost switch for user control. Which I think is what a couple of people up-thread suggested.

Does the switch over-ride the settings I've entered on the app?

[JohnMo]

I have a smart relay on my immersion and have wired so with the switch or the relay can power up the immersion.

 

So if smart relay is off, switch will over ride it. But if smart relay is on the switch has no effect. Either on is on at immersion, both have to be off to switch off immersion.

 

So if a renter switches on manually your smart relay may do nothing until the manual switch is off. Unless you do a switch with a timer so it can only boost for given period of time so it automatically switches it's self off after x minutes.

[Crofter]

34 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I have a smart relay on my immersion and have wired so with the switch or the relay can power up the immersion.

 

So if smart relay is off, switch will over ride it. But if smart relay is on the switch has no effect. Either on is on at immersion, both have to be off to switch off immersion.

 

So if a renter switches on manually your smart relay may do nothing until the manual switch is off. Unless you do a switch with a timer so it can only boost for given period of time so it automatically switches it's self off after x minutes.

Yup, I'm thinking of something like this:

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTGBD4.html?source=adwords&ad_position=&ad_id=&placement=&kw=&network=x&matchtype=&ad_type=pla&product_id=SMTGBD4&product_partition_id=&campaign=shopping_excluded&version=finalurl_v3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17412537060&gbraid=0AAAAAD-6GhngjnyiNNv99oTXWCfz05yLa&gclid=CjwKCAiA3L_JBhAlEiwAlcWO58bsIbDxo9-LpJwHEIi1sq9Y0U7PS0eaFIujmCgHwik3-wrmPLWRWhoC0BYQAvD_BwE

 

I don't need to be able to over-ride the switch remotely (if they want the house hotter, I'm not going to stop them!) but I don't want something that can be left on when the place is empty.

It's a holiday let so it can spend a few weeks at a time unoccupied.

[-rick-]

Be funny if me linking to something that didn't do what I initially thought ends up being something you use!

 

I do like the idea of using this in parallel to the Shelly, rather than programming the Shelly to do the boost itself, as you get the redunancy. But I'm pretty sure you could do with all within the Shelly and wiring a retractive switch to it.