Length of Soakaway

[DTL]

Hi,

 

I am in the process of buying a small cottage in Rural Scotland.

 

Drainage from the house is to an old brick septic tank which is within the garden.

The cottage was built in 1850, at a guess the septic tank and associated system is at least 70 years old.

 

The title deeds describe a servitude right to maintain the tail pipe/soakaway from the septic tank.

However, this tail pipe/soakaway is not shown of the title plot plan drawing.

 

I asked the Vendors to show the approximate location of the tail pipe/soakaway on a drawing.

They have produced a sketch which shows the tailpipe being only 2m long and just terminating at the garden fence, which separates the garden from the adjacent farmer’s field.

 

My question is; I thought soakaways were generally quite a lot longer than 2m, is it possible that the soakaway is only 2m long?

 

Thanks

[Conor]

It'll just be an old clay pipe running in to a ditch. 

 

If in doubt, budget on a full new treatment plant and soak away / discharge and get it taken off the asking price.

[DTL]

Thanks Conor.

 

There is a small stream probably 5m downhill from where they showed the termination of the pipe, so maybe you are correct with the clay pipe.

 

Out of interest would the discharge from the clay pipe be a bit smelly in the summer?

[ProDave]

A septic tank should not discharge to a watercourse.  But of course in the real world we all know many do.

 

The best upgrade you could do is replace the septic tank with a proper treatment plant, discharging into the watercourse.

 

You will need planning permission, a building warrant and a permit from SEPA but well worth it.

 

 

[Gus Potter]

4 hours ago, DTL said:

Hi,

 

I am in the process of buying a small cottage in Rural Scotland.

 

Drainage from the house is to an old brick septic tank which is within the garden.

The cottage was built in 1850, at a guess the septic tank and associated system is at least 70 years old.

 

The title deeds describe a servitude right to maintain the tail pipe/soakaway from the septic tank.

However, this tail pipe/soakaway is not shown of the title plot plan drawing.

 

I asked the Vendors to show the approximate location of the tail pipe/soakaway on a drawing.

They have produced a sketch which shows the tailpipe being only 2m long and just terminating at the garden fence, which separates the garden from the adjacent farmer’s field.

 

My question is; I thought soakaways were generally quite a lot longer than 2m, is it possible that the soakaway is only 2m long?

 

Thanks

Good post. 

 

Hope my comment help rather than hinder. The law in Scotland is differs from the rest of the UK.

 

Your starting point is to check that the existing tank has been registered with SEPA, your Solicitor should check this, you can also do this yourself. It's worth doing your own due dilligence. 

 

Now it gets a bit more complicated / political. The tail pipe seems to extend onto land you don't own and yes this is likely too short for a soak away. Also if you extend then you'll maybe need to discharge more. 

 

So putting my crusty Scottish hat on, like Yorkshire farmers, I think, do I smell a rat? Has the seller fallen out with the farmer / owner next door or is it just benign? 

 

Why have they not shown how the soakaway works and the location of the drainage field. I suspect that once you delve down you may find that you are exposed risk wise. Push your solicitor to get the the bottom of this. 

 

Now some folk may just buy this, maybe get stung. But also look to see if you can do a soakaway in your own land. Make no mistake, when it comes to farmers / rural Scottish sellers most are well clued up and if they can pass the buck to you they will. One way is to think, can I do my own soakaway in my own land and negotiate a discount on the price. 

 

 

[DTL]

Thanks for the replies, as suggested I'm going to ask some more questions of the vendor.

 

The Septic tank is registered with SEPA, as I understand it, it is the point of discharge from the tank within the garden that is registered with SEPA.

 

Its very unlikely that any new soakaway system could be implemented within the garden, as the garden is very small.

 

The deeds say I have a servitude right to a tail pipe, but on asking where this tail pipe was the Vendors are saying its the 2m pipe in the garden.

 

As Gus identifies, the fact that the tailpipe/soakaway ends exactly by the garden fence, not extending into neighbours land and not extending further towards the stream could be suspicious/problematic.

 

Given that the septic tank discharge is registered with SEPA, and the drainage arrangement is existing and historical, is discharge close to a water (or into) a water course allowable?

 

When the tank was registered, would the owner have to have declared the location of the discharge adjacent to the stream?

I.E does the fact that the tank is registered with SEPA mean that SEPA are aware how and where the discharge from the tank works, and are OK with this?

 

Thanks 

 

[ProDave]

Tail Pipe is the wrong thing to be asking about.  It is the drainage field or infiltration field that matters.  I don't literally mean a field, that term refers to an area of ground that has a network of perforated pipes set on stone buried under the field.  In the case of out last house the deed of servitude indicated the position and size of that under the adjoining field.

 

The good news is as long as it actually works, and it does drain somewhere, SEPA are exceedingly unlikely to ever bother you.  In spite of what they might say, the reality is they are not taking any enforcement about people here with septic tanks discharging directly into the burn.  But the bad news if you find it is not draining away then you will have problems sorting it out.  Worst case is you have to dig up the field where your tail pipe leads to and re lay the drainage field.  That will test if you really have a deed of servitude, so now is the time to properly get to the bottom of that.  Make your solicitor earn his money.

 

Do you have direct access to the watercourse or would you have to run a pipe over other peoples land to get there.  It is worth exploring that so you have the option to upgrade to a treatment plant discharging to water. That is SO much better,

 

P.S.  the outflow from a septic tank will stink.  The outflow from a properly functioning treatment plant should be a clear and odourless liquid.

[DTL]

Thanks for response.

 

According to the text in the deeds we have a servitude and maintenance right to the tailpipe. Which the vendors are now saying is 2m long, and within the garden.

 

There is no mention of a soakaway or drainage field within the title deeds.

The stream is outside the garden, and we would not have any rights to be installing anything outwith the extent of the garden, unless it historically existed.

 

I had a look a the SEPA certificate and it stated that discharge shall be "to land via a soakaway"

 

I will challenge Vendors more on the location of soakaway/drainage field.

 

However in the worst case can one argue to SEPA, that a 2m long clay pipe has historically been operating as a soakaway?

Edited 13 hours ago by DTL

[ProDave]

56 minutes ago, DTL said:

According to the text in the deeds we have a servitude and maintenance right to the tailpipe. Which the vendors are now saying is 2m long, and within the garden.

You don't need a servitude right for anything in your own garden.  A servitude right gives you a right to do something on other people's land, like the example of my previous house where it allowed us to install a drainage field under the adjacent farmers field.  That servitude right was presumably negotiated by the owner before he put our plot up for sale.

 

Be very careful here, you have a system that might work now by discharging to somewhere unknown (I doubt that 2M pipe is enough) but you don't appear to have any right to do anything outside your own garden,

 

IF that system ever fails, then you have no right to do anything on other land to fix it, or install any replacement system.  Your own small garden will NOT be enough room.

 

This is where you need a good solicitor that understands these things.  He should be insisting the vendor gets busy and negotiates a servitude right with the owner of the adjoining field where this tail pipe leads to.

 

I hope you have not yet concluded the missives?

[DTL]

Thanks for response.

 

The missives are not concluded, this is the final piece.

 

The title gives rights to the servitude of the tail pipe in text only, with no description as to where the pipe is actually located.

So, in theory if it had turned out it was in the farmers field we would have had rights to access, albeit it might have been a bit argumentative with the farmer as its location was not explicitly stated. However, in theory our right would have existed.

 

To make things tidier we asked the vendor to clarify the pipe location, they then provided the sketch showing the 2m pipe in the garden.

 

This was provided via an affidavit, so if the purchase was to go through the title would be updated to reflect this supposed location of the pipe, which would then effectively remove our rights for anything that is maybe in the farmers field.

 

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

good solicitor that understands these things.  

In similar circumstances I got a letter from the vendor stating that the septic tank and drain to soakaway in the nearby field had been in use for x (over 50??) years.

It is very likely that your pipe extends beyond the boundary as it is pointed that way.

If there is a hedge over a porous pipe  it's roots  will have filled it long ago.

 So it's likely a pipe to a rubble soakaway. 

[DTL]

Thanks for your response.

 

I don't understand what you mean about blocked pipe and how that then leads to requiring a rubble soakaway?

 

Can you clarify this for me

 

Many Thanks