Consumer unit replaced. Certs needed?

[BotusBuild]

Hello electrical experts/trades people.

 

I had an old consumer unit replaced with an 18th regs compliant version last year. No change to the circuits was involved.

 

Should I have received a certification or testing report and/or building control document from the installer?

[nod]

There’s a lot of jobber electricians that arnt able to certify As they haven kept up But if he can it’s handy to have 

[BotusBuild]

But not mandatory?

[Nickfromwales]

9 minutes ago, nod said:

There’s a lot of jobber electricians that arnt able to certify As they haven kept up But if he can it’s handy to have 

Check my PM to you plz mate   

 

Sorry for the hijack. 
 

@BotusBuild, I’ve never done a CU swap with testing first, and then giving a certificate (via one of my bonafide sub contractors), so you should have had one. If you didn’t ask then they probably did it as a ‘cash’ job and wanted to be in and out.

[nod]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Check my PM to you plz mate   

 

Sorry for the hijack. 
 

@BotusBuild, I’ve never done a CU swap with testing first, and then giving a certificate (via one of my bonafide sub contractors), so you should have had one. If you didn’t ask then they probably did it as a ‘cash’ job and wanted to be in and out.

I’ve a friend who only does small private jobs As he’s in his 70s Ever time his certificate assessment comes up he says it’s his last 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

56 minutes ago, nod said:

I’ve a friend who only does small private jobs As he’s in his 70s Ever time his certificate assessment comes up he says it’s his last 

 

 

Send me a PM please!!!!!

[andyscotland]

22 hours ago, BotusBuild said:

But not mandatory?

 

In terms of a building control certificate, that depends on where you are in the UK. And as @nod says there will be sparks who are capable of doing a decent job but wouldn't for example be able to issue a Part P certificate (for English building control) due to not having paid the money/kept all the many things in date to be on the Part P register.

 

However, you absolutely should have had an Electrical Installation Certificate with accompanying schedule of test results. There's no specific restriction on anyone issuing those - if you're competent to do the work you're competent to issue the cert.

 

That is a fundamental requirement of BS7671 (644.1) and I would be concerned about anyone who did this kind of work without meeting that requirement.

[nod]

11 minutes ago, andyscotland said:

 

In terms of a building control certificate, that depends on where you are in the UK. And as @nod says there will be sparks who are capable of doing a decent job but wouldn't for example be able to issue a Part P certificate (for English building control) due to not having paid the money/kept all the many things in date to be on the Part P register.

 

However, you absolutely should have had an Electrical Installation Certificate with accompanying schedule of test results. There's no specific restriction on anyone issuing those - if you're competent to do the work you're competent to issue the cert.

 

That is a fundamental requirement of BS7671 (644.1) and I would be concerned about anyone who did this kind of work without meeting that requirement.

The sparks on sites are qualified up to there eyeballs 

Because they don’t have to pay for an assessment and don’t loose a couple of days pay 

 

 

[Susie]

You definitely should have received a certificate 

if you still have some of the details of who did the installation you can look them up on NICEIC if registered with them or other part P registration schemes eg ECA and if you find who they are registered with then you can contact the registration scheme who will organise it to be checked.  All the registration schemes guarantee the work of the members that’s why the annual checking of the members is done.  As Nod said when the annual checks are done it is often at least a full day of inspecting previous jobs and checking paperwork and insurance is in place.  Being a qualified electrician getting the certifications from college etc is not the same as being registered with a part P scheme provider as your work or company work is continually checked.

 

[Nickfromwales]

Simple question is, do you need one? 
 

Unless you’re renting the place out, you don’t “need” one, and we don’t know the arrangement you had with this person (cash / invoice), but you can get a simple inspection done and get a cert that way if you really need / want to. 

[BotusBuild]

The change was made when we rented out the house last year. That has come to and end and we are now selling. What brought this to a head was a question on the conveyancer questionnaire.

 

Thanks for all the input.

[andyscotland]

10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Simple question is, do you need one? 

IMO, you need one to know that the work was done properly by someone competent to do it.

 

It should be a fundamental part of a board change to do the inspection & testing required to know it's connected up correctly, protective devices will function as expected, and the resultant installation is within safe parameters.

 

If the installer has done those checks, why wouldn't they document them in the form required by BS7671?

 

If they have not, then what other corners have they cut?

 

Note: this is not about whether you get a NICEIC/ECA/Part P/whatever cert - I have mixed feelings about the value of the various pay-to-play registration schemes, and it's reasonable to avoid them if you are understand what you're getting/not getting/potentially saving by going that route.

 

But the basic form of certificate is available free of charge and can be issued by any electrician and therefore should be.

[BotusBuild]

17 minutes ago, andyscotland said:

But the basic form of certificate

The Electrical Installation Certificate you mean?

[Onoff]

In terms of certification then getting an EICR done on the whole install is the way forward in order to verify what's there now. 

 

Electrical Installation Condition Report. What was the "PIR", Periodic Inspection Report. 

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, Onoff said:

In terms of certification then getting an EICR done on the whole install is the way forward in order to verify what's there now. 

 

Electrical Installation Condition Report. What was the "PIR", Periodic Inspection Report. 

Yup. That’s what I was referring to.

 

Gives the install a 10 yr (iirc) MOT

[Nickfromwales]

30 minutes ago, andyscotland said:

IMO, you need one to know that the work was done properly by someone competent to do it.

 

It should be a fundamental part of a board change to do the inspection & testing required to know it's connected up correctly, protective devices will function as expected, and the resultant installation is within safe parameters.

 

If the installer has done those checks, why wouldn't they document them in the form required by BS7671?

 

If they have not, then what other corners have they cut?

 

Note: this is not about whether you get a NICEIC/ECA/Part P/whatever cert - I have mixed feelings about the value of the various pay-to-play registration schemes, and it's reasonable to avoid them if you are understand what you're getting/not getting/potentially saving by going that route.

 

But the basic form of certificate is available free of charge and can be issued by any electrician and therefore should be.

Agreed, but a), we can’t assume they right do it and b), if there are any issues with a modern RCD / RCBO CU then the circuits will just trip out.

 

I’m not saying not to do it, and I always priced in to do a full health check with the existing CU left in place in case every circuit tripped, as otherwise you’re left holding an expensive nightmare. 

[andyscotland]

45 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

The Electrical Installation Certificate you mean?

Yep.

 

38 minutes ago, Onoff said:

In terms of certification then getting an EICR done on the whole install is the way forward in order to verify what's there now. 

 

Electrical Installation Condition Report. What was the "PIR", Periodic Inspection Report. 

 

Indeed - although, technically, an EICR is not as in-depth as the EIC that should be done for significant works and in particular doesn't involve anyone actually certifying that the work is safe and compliant.

 

31 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Agreed, but a), we can’t assume they right do it and b), if there are any issues with a modern RCD / RCBO CU then the circuits will just trip out.

 

Generally speaking, yes - much more so than in the past - but not in every case. There are still faults that can exist and leave the installation in a potentially dangerous condition without immediately tripping a breaker.

 

31 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I’m not saying not to do it, and I always priced in to do a full health check with the existing CU left in place in case every circuit tripped, as otherwise you’re left holding an expensive nightmare. 

 

Well indeed, it's always sensible to assess the install for selfish reasons before you end up being responsible for fixing things you didn't break 🤣

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, andyscotland said:

Indeed - although, technically, an EICR is not as in-depth as the EIC that should be done for significant works and in particular doesn't involve anyone actually certifying that the work is safe and compliant.

 

In the absence of an EIC then an EICR usually satisfies for rentals etc. Let's face it there's no way you'll get hold of the original sparks. 

[andyscotland]

Just now, Onoff said:

In the absence of an EIC then an EICR usually satisfies for rentals etc. Let's face it there's no way you'll get hold of the original sparks. 

 

Absolutely, about all you can do at this point.

 

Was more just noting for anyone that encounters the thread in future if they've not yet had work done.