Should I bother with LDC?

[dajones]

I live in a fairly rural area, my house has 1.5 acres of land. The original plot has been added on to twice. In 1985 about 1/2 an acre from the adjacent field was added to it. Then in 2015 another acre from the field was added. This was land transfer, on the deeds, I didn't just fence a chunk off. The land has been mixed use all this time, some domestic use, some for business use. I ran a poultry business on some of it until 3 years ago. There's a large workshop (been there 30 years) that was used for that business, and for storage overflow from the house. I planted an orchard about 8 years ago. Had a veg plot, and until it was destroyed by storms last winter I had a poly tunnel for personal use. The first chunk that was added was used pretty much as a garden, fruit trees, chickens for personal use, veg patch etc. But I also ran my business off part of it.

I want to build a new workshop. Keeping it under PD, and under building regs size. But I dont know if the land is agricultural or garden, you could make a fair case for either I guess, at least various parts of have functioned as both. I'm concerned if I apply for a LDC it'll get turned down on that basis.

So I'm actually considering just building the workshop, since the site already has a large (12mx6m) shed on it already, and recently had some removed, so i guess people will just assume I'm allowed to since it's already had a lot of that going on anyway for years. My brother owns the land on three sides, and he wont complain cause he wants me to be amenable to what he's doing too. We're on good terms.

I mean I've been doing whatever I want on the land for 12 years anyway and no-ones complained, planting trees, putting up polytunnel, a few hundred chickens, chicken coops, chicken runs etc.. So i think it's pretty likely no-one will say anything. But what happens if they do? Could I make a feasible argument that I need some PD / garden, there's been no business use for 3 and half years, although I'm only just now getting everything cleared. I mean I need a ride on mower to cut the grass, so I need somewhere to store that at bare minimum.

Should I apply for LDC for existing use of the land as a garden, or for the actual workshop I want to put up?

Or should i just do it, and see what happens?

 

[mr rusty]

Quote

Or should i just do it, and see what happens

My understanding, FWIW is that PD only applied to domestic curtilage  - I had this on a recent PP for a garden room which I knew would be slightly controversial due to a house only 7m the other side of fence. I was saying to them, "if I can't build this, I'll build this alternative under PD". Planning officer dug out some old google earth pix that showed the garden as scrub and tried to suggest it wasn't domestic therefore no PD anyway. Fortunately I had older photos showing a neat garden, so that argument failed. They allowed the PP for a pitched roof building which had a 2.3m eaves 1m from fence instead of a 2.5m wall at the boundary which was my fall-back 🙂

 

Point being from this I understand if it isn't domestic curtilage there is no PD. Perhaps investigate what you are allowed to build as an agricultural building then you can argue both ways if you have to.

[Big Jimbo]

Just do it. Nobody is likely to complain. Your neighbour is your brother. Any miserable gits in the local area ?

[ProDave]

It boils down to  do you want to poke the bear now, and risk them saying you can't do it?  Or just do it anyway with the slight risk the bear might notice at some point in the future and you will have even more evidence of domestic use by then.

 

I would just do it.

[JohnMo]

Very large farmers sheds and buildings go up all the time, bet none of it has any local authority permissions, does anyone care - no

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

bet none of it has any local authority permissions

That's a big assumption. I think that only applies if it is demobstrably or agriculture.

I imagine it is taken seriously if discovered, otherwise farmers would be building speculatively everywhere: farm shed becomes  domestic, then office then house and big gains.

 

 

[dajones]

Replying to everyone in one post.

 

I don't know what the domestic curtilage is, there is only a tiny 10m x 5m patch of land from the original 1900s property. The half acre that was added in 1985 was for the purposes of an extension to the house. So the back end of the house is actual on land that was originally the field. But it's been mixed use over 30 years, some domestic, some commercial, you can see all the various things on google earth. Hedge, sheds, poly tunnels, chickens, all appearing and disappearing over time.

 

Farmers have PD rights, but you have to have 5 hectares before they apply. They allow you to build a certain amount of agricultural buildings each year. But that doesn't apply to me.

 

I've been trawling through other threads / the web, and someone said that the curtilage should be defined on any PP for a house. So i looked up the PP for the last house extension, 1989, and it shows an area of the field outlined in red, actually larger than the original piece added, and it is marked as "boundary". Reckon this could be the curtilage?

Edited September 21 by dajones