ASHP without Boiler Upgrade Scheme?

[nod]

1 hour ago, JoeBano said:

In 2008 you would need a buffer as they were all fixed output, now with inverter driven heats pump like yours they can modulate down to the heat demand. I managed to get a grant aerona3 10kw, megaflow cylinder and a cordvari buffer for £1600. Right place right time. 

Does that include a heat pump ?

Have I been robbed ?😁

 

Back in 2008 they put massive cylinders in the lofts Big mistake Absolute nightmare for servicing and repairs 

Hes servicing contracts for about 130 out of the 200 plus All still going strong 

 

I new nothing about HPs at the time But I can rember them being noisy Blocks of six houses All six HPs in a row next to the patios Right under the bedroom windows 

Not sure if that would fly now 

Edited Thursday at 22:46 by nod

[nod]

5 hours ago, nod said:

I must be looking in the wrong places 😂The tank they used was about £1200 plus’s buffers 3 pumps etc

The numbers just don’t add up I’m over 5k without all the other bits Or any labour 

 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, JoeBano said:

Right place right time.

@nod

 

He is saying had a bargain  Relax big guy, I don't want you to get a hernia over this!  

[JohnMo]

8 hours ago, nod said:

The numbers just don’t add up I’m over 5k without all the other bits Or any labour 

My cylinder was in a summer sale so several hundred off normal price (currently selling at £1200)

Heat pump was on eBay a distributor selling excess stock normal price around £4500, I paid £1300 after some bargaining. I got no warranty, but was willing to take the risk, it was still in the manufacturers box unopened.

 

My labour is free.

[joth]

15 hours ago, JamesPa said:

Why do you want buffers and 3 pumps?

 

Not so much "want" as compelled to: Ecodan manufacturer instructions  mandate the use of a low loss header and registered installers won't deviate from that for fear of violating the warranty 

Obviously "don't use Ecodan" is easy retort but I'm primarily answering why existing ecodan installs like nod's will have it. 

[JamesPa]

@timhowes

 

Whatever else you do and whether you get a grant or not please do not:

 

Get a buffer and more than one pump (including any pump in the outdoor unit).  A 2 port volumiser in the flow is OK.  Don't get or any other form of system separation, eg a phe or llh, between emitters and heat pump either.

 

Get a massively oversized heat pump, unless your loss is say 3kW or less, in which case you have no choice and anyway it doesn't matter because of the low consumption.

 

Get external controls (exception - those specifically designed for heat pumps IE havenwise, homely or adia)

 

If you do any of these it's highly likely you will be back on this forum complaining about poor performance.  

 

The understanding and technology of heat pumps has moved on a lot in the past 5 years, sadly some installers haven't kept up and are still following outdated practices for their own benefit not the benefit of the householder.

 

There are of course some specific circumstances where one or more elements of the above advice doesn't apply, but they are  rare in domestic situations.

Edited Friday at 09:29 by JamesPa

[JamesPa]

50 minutes ago, joth said:

Not so much "want" as compelled to: Ecodan manufacturer instructions  mandate the use of a low loss header and registered installers won't deviate from that for fear of violating the warranty 

Obviously "don't use Ecodan" is easy retort but I'm primarily answering why existing ecodan installs like nod's will have it. 

I would check this directly with Mitsubishi tech support (who are very helpful).  If it is the case, which I frankly doubt, don't use ecodan, seriously.  "It's mandated by the manufacturer" is an excuse some installers use to do what they want to do for their benefit, not yours, knowing you are unlikely to check.

Edited Friday at 09:21 by JamesPa

[JohnMo]

25 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

A 2 port volumiser in the flow is OK

But I would add, have it only on the heating side of the 3 port diverter valve. Otherwise when heating DHW you are also heating an unnecessary high volume of water. Plus if you have UFH pushing 50+ degs water directly into the floor once the 3 port diverter swings back to heating duty - not good.

[joth]

3 hours ago, JamesPa said:

I would check this directly with Mitsubishi tech support (who are very helpful).

Interesting my experience was very different, they refused to talk to me because I'm not a registered installer.

 

[mk1_man]

On 03/07/2025 at 12:37, timhowes said:

Hi all

 

Great resource - I have enjoyed reading these forums over the past few weeks and have learned a lot. First post so please be patient (I've used the search function!)

 

We are planning a renovation and have got to the point where we are settled on converting from oil combi/rads to UFH downstairs fed by ASHP. Will be some solar PV as well.

 

I've had "help" from a few firms who plan and install greener heating systems and are MCS certified so will "save" me £7500 using the BUS. The trouble is their prices are super inflated, often justified by over-speccing.

 

I can source all the kit I need more economically, and our chosen builders will be able to fit (not savvy enough / not enough time to do DIY), What are peoples' experiences with / approaches to getting the BUS grant in this situation? Choose an MCS-certified contractor to acquire the kit from my chosen sources at zero VAT, then pay them back, pay the labour and claim the grant? Suspect it's not that simple.

 

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

Tim

 

Hi Tim

 

By going down the MCS Umbrella scheme option it is feasible to install a heatpump, tank and associated bits and pieces at near to cost neutral once BUS grant factored in.  I self installed a 7kW Vaillant and their 250l cylinder and after receiving £7500 grant I was pretty much cost neutral.  My labour was free but to be honest it only took me around 5 days off and on to install so not sure how the other companies justified their circa £12k quotes. With the correct tools and experience it should have taken them a couple of days at most.  I was totally UFH so no radiators to upgrade etc.   I went with https://www.air2heat.co.uk/

 

 

[JamesPa]

7 hours ago, joth said:

Interesting my experience was very different, they refused to talk to me because I'm not a registered installer.

 

That's indeed interesting.  My contacts were about 18 months ago, perhaps they have changed?