Include windows in an invitation to tender?

[DaveKF]

New build house, going to use a main contractor. I've got full BR drawings and will get Bill of Quantities from online shop.

 

But I'm still unclear about some vital things like windows: do we a) get quotes from window suppliers ourselves or b) specify in detail the specs for the windows and get the main contractor to get quotes and include that in his quote?

 

Any advice would be very welcome.

 

Do we specify all the internal finishes and joinery for one single quote or do shell and then interiors as 2 separate stages?

[Nickfromwales]

Most of my clients want to touch / feel / operate the units, slide and fold the doors etc so are more hands on in this respect tbh.

[DevilDamo]

In having a main contractor, you would let them take care of the whole process and ordering. They may in the first instance allow a provisional sum for those items and provide you with their recommended or suggested suppliers.

[JohnMo]

36 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Most of my clients want to touch / feel / operate the units, slide and fold the doors etc so are more hands on in this respect tbh.

Yep, got prices, took wife to see windows, 2 mins later we were in the car on the way home, the windows were cr@p - I got more prices. 

 

36 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

provide you with their recommended or suggested suppliers

I took advice from several contractors, do your own leg work. Go around show rooms try opening and closing, look for gaps etc. if they can't do a good job for a showroom, you've no hope.

[nod]

Online or any other estimators are really just a finger in the air 

 

When you get your contractor to quote Get him to itemize everything Ie 

25k for windows external doors 40 k for a kitchen etc Then at least you can up or downgrade from what you have in writing 

[Nickfromwales]

53 minutes ago, nod said:

Online or any other estimators are really just a finger in the air 

 

It actually depends on which one you choose, and what you actually ask them to do. I have a good chap who charges me a very nominal sum to do a BOQ to reflect a "minimal acceptable standard" and then I cut him loose.

 

I just want the framework so I can then use it to input the clients choices and get to a design freeze, that way they can see the budget expand and contract with the different choices they make; often some have to compromise, particularly when we show them the professional fees etc and when we add in the stuff in the prelims that they quickly skirted over when first considering building a house!

 

I think it's an essential process that each project needs, afaic, to keep a firm control on costs and for getting design freezes done early on which then allows the client to go out to tender.

[Spinny]

We chose our own window, door, and rooflight suppliers. (I honestly expected much more input from the architect which was disappointing because you have to do all your own research and legwork and visits to see them in the flesh). We included them with their quoted prices in the building tender. However a builder will add 10% (plus VAT if applicable) on the price straight off, and will also charge for delivery, fitting etc.

 

At the very last moment our builder suddenly took them out of his price. I have been told this occurs quite commonly because ordering custom size/spec doors and windows most often requires a very large deposit or even full payment with order - and delivery/install can be many months later. This then represents a large negative cash flow for the builder. He left the rooflights in, but we had to take them out too when he was completely failing to prepare an order in time for them to be on site at the right time. I had to work out the sizing including heights w.r.t. the roof slope/furring myself, and order the rooflights and matching upstands directly myself.

 

We had the doors, bifolds and windows fitted by the suppliers. Seems the best way to me albeit you need the openings prepared before they can come to site to measure. Then they produce drawings for your agreement, then make to the drawings, then come and fit them. Means you are not dependent on a possibly dodgy builder not fitting them very well, it isn't your fault if they don't fit, you get a guarantee from the supplier/fitter, and if the builder has screwed up the opening they will call it out when they come to site - arguably you can charge the builder for a failed fitting. Our builder screwed up the bifold opening.

 

There can be a LOT more to ordering the doors, bifolds, windows, and rooflights than you might think or expect. Lots of options these days - RAL colour, Matt/Satin/Gloss, handle colour, handle style, type of lock, opening direction, opening side, hinge colour, height vs FFL, trickle vents, style of frame, sightline on bifolds, type of glazing unit, cill ?, cill type, cill size, internal blinds ?, blind colour, corded ? And then you have to think about where you want the plaster line to be on the frame and how that might match with other adjacent windows. Is your builder (who won't live with the end result) going to carefully consider all that stuff ?

 

A lot may depend on your budget, but often fenestration is a big part of design/look these days.

 

 

[Spinny]

If you are plastering then a possible dividing point is the 'mist coat'. i.e. have the builder plaster and apply a mist coat to the plaster.

 

A builder will assume anything not specified is basic and cheapest available. So specify e.g. skirting, architrave, coving, internal doors, hinges, handles etc. - MDF, timber, pine, oak ?

 

Builders may just produce a quote with 'Estimate Only' for some sections or items. For example plumbing, or electrical work. You may need to insist they provide a broken down quote from their plumber or electrician against your defined specification. We had builders give an estimate only figure which was half the actual cost when it was quoted - good trick to make a quote look cheaper - but not what a customer wants.

 

Our architect put provisional sums into the SoW where the spec was undefined.

Also Provisional items are things to be quoted but you may decide to drop from the contract (e.g. to save cost). Don't forget once you sign with a builder and he is part way into the job, it will be too late to argue with him if you want an extra and he quotes you an exorbitant price for that extra.

 

(PS We were only doing an extension not new build.)