Samsung gen6 issues

[HughF]

Good evening forum collective... I've spent the day assisting my builder commission his Samsung gen6 with a pre-plumbed worldheat cylinder and we've got a few issues.

 

We've decided to use the Samsung controller as the room thermostat, so we've configured the field settings values per the midsummer quick start guide to enable that. I've setup the weather comp/water law and I've set the DHW schedule and temperature. It does a DHW charge just fine, but I cannot get it to switch over to heating.

 

The issue is that the worldheat cylinder includes a integrated buffer, along with associated secondary pump and 2 port zone valve. I cannot for the life of me get the Samsung to switch the zone valve (and the pump, wired across the zone valve aux contacts) on when calling for central heating. I can get it to run the zone valve when I go into self-test and manually drive it, but here's the weird thing; when I activate it to on, the contacts on the aux switch close between white and orange, implying that the valve is powering off when I activate it. White being the NC contact to orange. I did  not have my tester or multimeter with me today to verify whats actually occuring.

 

I should add that it did run the zone valve and pump when it was asked to do a DHW charge.

 

So, the issue can be resolved in 2 ways: remove the zone valve and secondary pump, re-plumb the buffer as a volumiser and just leave the primary pump and 3 port to do what's required (my preference, for simplicity and efficiency), or try and get the Samsung controller to actively drive the zone valve when required.

 

Does anyone have any experience with using a samsung MIM to drive a zone valve or are you all running direct?

[Temp]

I'm not familiar with this particular system but..

 

It sounds like its expecting the heating zone valve to be a separate valve rather than both CH and DHW via the same valve. If there isnt a way to assign the one valve output to both CH and DHW then you might have to connect both outputs to the same valve electrically. That might need relays to isolate the two outputs to prevent the output of one feeding back into the other. 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 00:04 by Temp

[Temp]

I noticed on page 59 of the install manual this diagram has a "buffer" zone valve output. Is your valve connected to that? or to the DHW output?

 

[HughF]

5 hours ago, Temp said:

I noticed on page 59 of the install manual this diagram has a "buffer" zone valve output. Is your valve connected to that? or to the DHW output?

 

That’s for a joule, with their own pcb. This is a pre-plumbed unit from world heat. The three port is working fine, and the zone valve is wired across the ‘zone valve1’ output (I forget exactly which terminal numbers it is on the Samsung MIM).

[HughF]

Zone valve is on 10 & 11, secondary pump is wago'd to orange... permanent live picked up off 20

[Jenki]

14 hours ago, HughF said:

Good evening forum collective... I've spent the day assisting my builder commission his Samsung gen6 with a pre-plumbed worldheat cylinder and we've got a few issues.

 

We've decided to use the Samsung controller as the room thermostat, so we've configured the field settings values per the midsummer quick start guide to enable that. I've setup the weather comp/water law and I've set the DHW schedule and temperature. It does a DHW charge just fine, but I cannot get it to switch over to heating.

 

The issue is that the worldheat cylinder includes a integrated buffer, along with associated secondary pump and 2 port zone valve. I cannot for the life of me get the Samsung to switch the zone valve (and the pump, wired across the zone valve aux contacts) on when calling for central heating. I can get it to run the zone valve when I go into self-test and manually drive it, but here's the weird thing; when I activate it to on, the contacts on the aux switch close between white and orange, implying that the valve is powering off when I activate it. White being the NC contact to orange. I did  not have my tester or multimeter with me today to verify whats actually occuring.

 

I should add that it did run the zone valve and pump when it was asked to do a DHW charge.

 

So, the issue can be resolved in 2 ways: remove the zone valve and secondary pump, re-plumb the buffer as a volumiser and just leave the primary pump and 3 port to do what's required (my preference, for simplicity and efficiency), or try and get the Samsung controller to actively drive the zone valve when required.

 

Does anyone have any experience with using a samsung MIM to drive a zone valve or are you all running direct?

I've got this setup worldheat cylinder and buffer with gen6.

my manifold for UFH does not have a pump, its just controlled with a 2 port valve with a separate 2 port for the DHW.

I re plumbed the buffer to act as a volumiser - i,e. From Heat pump > flow UFH > RETURN UFH >  TOP Buffer > Bottom Buffer > Heat pump return.

I got rid of the 3 port, as you still need a 2 port to satisfy G3

 

EDIT: I use a separate room stat (Cheap wireless remote with timer) to call for heat no zones - heat over night  

my programmer is set for 18.5deg through the day and 19.5 at night this basically means it only call for heat at night - and then only in the winter months (the benefits of good insulation and Air tightness)

Edited yesterday at 12:53 by Jenki
more detail

[HughF]

3 minutes ago, Jenki said:

I've got this setup worldheat cylinder and buffer with gen6.

my manifold for UFH does not have a pump, its just controlled with a 2 port valve with a separate 2 port for the DHW.

I re plumbed the buffer to act as a volumiser - i,e. From Heat pump > flow UFH > RETURN UFH >  TOP Buffer > Bottom Buffer > Heat pump return.

I got rid of the 3 port, as you still need a 2 port to satisfy G3

Are you using the samsung controller as the room stat?

[Jenki]

Just now, HughF said:

Are you using the samsung controller as the room stat?

just updated my post see above

[HughF]

3 minutes ago, Jenki said:

just updated my post see above

I suspected that. I wonder if my issues are that the worldheat is wired to require an external stat to switch the zone valve and pump on, but I'm telling it to use the room controller as the stat...

[Jenki]

1 minute ago, HughF said:

I suspected that. I wonder if my issues are that the worldheat is wired to require an external stat to switch the zone valve and pump on, but I'm telling it to use the room controller as the stat...

I wasn't sure, it was my first and only install, so fumbled my way around. The Samsung stat didn't have a wireless option and I wanted to be able to move it around to get the best balance, its only a small house.  I used the attached manual to get me through.  the Samsung ones are so big I lost my way.

The controller I used is a PNI CT60

Samsung-Gen-6-Heat-Pump-Installation-Manual.pdf

[HughF]

I'm tempted to re-wire and re-plumb the thing, but it's not my unit and not at my house...

 

I'd go single pump, 3 port (already there and working fine), buffer as a volumiser... only needs a couple of pipe changes and the 2 port and secondary pump removing.

[Jenki]

2 minutes ago, HughF said:

I'm tempted to re-wire and re-plumb the thing, but it's not my unit and not at my house...

 

I'd go single pump, 3 port (already there and working fine), buffer as a volumiser... only needs a couple of pipe changes and the 2 port and secondary pump removing.

i added a second pump on the return as I was worried about the flow, but I've never wired it in.   

IMHO the extra pump on the manifold and buffer used as a buffer could create short cycling, and its an unnecessary complication. i wanted my set up as simple as possible. no zones etc. just heat the slab . 

[HughF]

I'm pretty confident this can be run open loop as it's 5 rads on 22mm with 15mm drops. Don't think there will be a flow issue.

[JohnMo]

Buffer and secondary pump and zone valve just delete them - are they needed? Most likely not.

[Jenki]

25 minutes ago, HughF said:

I'm pretty confident this can be run open loop as it's 5 rads on 22mm with 15mm drops. Don't think there will be a flow issue.

as @JohnMo says, with this volume you could probably bypass the buffer altogether.  my UFH volume was under required minimum so as volumizer was required. I got a great deal on the World heat cylinder so went the buffer route with some re-piping.

[HughF]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Buffer and secondary pump and zone valve just delete them - are they needed? Most likely not.

It’s what I would do, but I need to convince the owner. On site Wednesday so we’ll see what happens.