ICF or shuttered concrete?

[Ed_]

Its been asked before, but not for a number of years so i'd like to see if there are any updates.

 

I have a walkout basement, only needs to be waterproof on 2 sides, other 2 will be above ground, approx a 10x 10m box.

I have initial quotes from an ICF contractor and a shuttered concrete contractor to do essentially the same thing (slab, 200m thick waterproof concrete walls, 2nd waterproofing, insulation etc) and the price for each is basically the same.

If it was a full basement, i'd probably go shuttered concrete for the ability to inspect the pour quality, but as its walkout and will be free draining i'm not too concerned about waterproofing.

 

Are there any reasons to pick one over the other?

[Mr Punter]

@Conor did a walk out basement in ICF.  

 

[Conor]

The advantage with ICF is that you just continue the same build method from the bottom to the top. I'd you do shuttered concrete, you need to think and detail how you change from that method for the two walls to the rest of the structure.

[Ed_]

Unfortunately I'm cheating and getting Dan wood to put a house on top of my basement, so continuity is a worry but not a determining factor.

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, Conor said:

The advantage with ICF is that you just continue the same build method from the bottom to the top. If you do shuttered concrete, you need to think and detail how you change from that method for the two walls to the rest of the structure.

I came across this on a 4-storey dwelling with a walk-out basement job that I was associated with a while ago. ICF, and a few steep learning curves for all professionals around it (including the 'architect'.....). This had the "change" between poured and laid products, and the results were the sum of zero joined-up thinking.

 

There are so many ways to avoid issues whilst the job is still on paper, just choose well the folk who you trust to advise you and what their ACTUAL experiences are. Needles to say the basement leaked, at the change in disciplines, simply because those closest to the client didn't appreciate how water moves (hydraulic something or other, it's late) but it finds a way trust me!

 

Mixing shuttered concrete and ICF needs a wise head on experienced shoulders. I tried to advise, but was shot down by the 'almighty' as I'm just a plumber.. Good job my pipes didn't leak like the basement did, lol. Was painful watching 2' of water getting pumped out whilst they figured it out.

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Ed_ said:

Unfortunately I'm cheating and getting Dan wood to put a house on top of my basement, so continuity is a worry but not a determining factor.

Check out @Bitpipe's content  

[saveasteading]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

This had the "change" between poured and laid product

A joint between civil engineering and building.

You're right. This sort of thing goes wrong through lack of forethought or understanding of the power of water to get past an obstacle.

Easily designed out but difficult to put right after the event.

Then someone wants to cut holes through it.

Was expensive tanking the solution?

 

[Nickfromwales]

22 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A joint between civil engineering and building.

You're right. This sort of thing goes wrong through lack of forethought or understanding of the power of water to get past an obstacle.

Easily designed out but difficult to put right after the event.

Then someone wants to cut holes through it.

Was expensive tanking the solution?

 

Drilling the joint and pumping in a ‘grout’ under very high pressure, iirc. I’d left by that time as we were pretty much done.
 

The plasterboards and OSB / cables etc were stripped off the wall for investigations a few weeks prior to our departure, to see where it was coming from and allow various professionals to discuss. IMO the architect was clearly to blame for not spotting (or having any such experience to know) that this was going to be an issue, but when you saw how insanely over “budget” they were at that stage I guess the cards were already on the table with regards to how he’d not ever actually built any of his drawings.
 

I did a huge amount of problem solving for the client, architect and SE, for little to zero thanks, but with the basement I left for them to point fingers with, not my battle, but could have been so easily avoided just by relocating the transitions. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️. 
 

It was already tanked, btw, and the water breached that too.