Homemade Stoves

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Beechwood fires are bright and clear

How I miss the beechwoods down here.

[Roger440]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Those Numatics are mean suckers.

Tried to do the restaurant carpet with one (410m²), nearly killed me.

Went to buy a new vacuum for home yesterday as I bust my 20 year sold Hoover at work.  Curries had been broken into, so nothing till Wednesday.

 

Then my comments about fitting it outside may be useful.

Wood pellets are about 12p/kWh once delivery, VAT and efficiency is taken into account.  Which is about the same as I pay for my E7 night rate.

Except that electricity prices are artificially high because they are based on gas prices.  This could change, and must change, if we are to tackle climate change, especially if around 70% of our generation is now low carbon.  It is wrong to blame renewable energy on high prices.  It is now the cheapest form of electricity.

 

Yes, any such device would be outside. No need or desire to pollute ones self.

 

Would be wood, not wood pellets. 12p/kWh is higher than oil, so that would be pointless.

 

Yes, you are of course right about electricity prices pegged to gas. You are right also that it must change. Problem is, it wont. To many people making too much money from the status quo. Government could change that tommorow. But they wont. Id lay good money on it.

 

Im sufficiently convinced that im putting all my efforts into reducing my reliance on electricity insofar as is practical. As i said, im not planning on being a victim.

 

 

[Roger440]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

Ummm, with an ASHP with a decent COP lecky will beat gas just about methinks, especially if one factors in servicing.  
 

Oil is still wonderfully cheap, but requires annual servicing and space for storage and deliveries and methinks will soon-ish be targeted to push peeps towards lecky just for political boxticking if nothing else.

 

So, I think given best guesses re future price trends lecky wins.  So there.  Or rather, so not therefore…

 

I dont have gas. Just oil. Which is cheaper. 

 

I can service myself, its not rocket science, and have the infrastructure in place already. Whilst its possible that they may artificially put up heating oil price, given the scale of usage, unlikely id say. Certainly less likely than ever increasing electricity prices and rolling blackouts.

 

On the basis of that brief risk assesement, best stick to oil.

 

If they really did put it up, just switch to red diesel instead. Dirtier to run, but, forced into a corner of be warm and burn disel or be cold, theres only one way im going.

 

No one can know the future, but cheaper electricity definitely isnt in the mix.

[SteamyTea]

9 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

12p/kWh is higher than oil, so that would be pointless

I plugged in efficiency losses into that, I suspect that oil is similar in price.

 

Some on here are buying in electricity at ~5p/kWh.

Edited Sunday at 13:48 by SteamyTea

[G and J]

5 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

As i said, im not planning on being a victim.

But how far does one take this?  A huge stash of bottled water, tinned food, iodine and an assault rifle á la many American NRA members?

 

In my more fanciful moments I wonder about planning for a backup battery for life support systems (lighting, MVHR, internet and coffee maker) but in reality in civilised parts of Blighty power cuts aren’t that common.  
 

On the other hand isolate me from coffee and it’s not pretty.   You can take my coffee cup from my cold, dead hand.   😉

[G and J]

3 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

I dont have gas. Just oil. Which is cheaper. 

 

I can service myself, its not rocket science, and have the infrastructure in place already. Whilst its possible that they may artificially put up heating oil price, given the scale of usage, unlikely id say. Certainly less likely than ever increasing electricity prices and rolling blackouts.

 

On the basis of that brief risk assesement, best stick to oil.

 

If they really did put it up, just switch to red diesel instead. Dirtier to run, but, forced into a corner of be warm and burn disel or be cold, theres only one way im going.

 

No one can know the future, but cheaper electricity definitely isnt in the mix.

You will do whatever makes you happy.  You don’t need anyone’s agreement from here or anywhere else. 
 

But I do look to government to set the parameters well so our beautiful country does continue, overall, to make progress towards a lesser footprint.  

[Roger440]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I plugged in efficiency losses into that, I suspect that oil is similar in price.

 

Oil still cheaper. Circa 55p = vat a litre. 10kWh in a liter. Circa 85% efficiency. And an awful lot less buggering about.

 

primary aim at the moment is to buy a 2500l tank so i can pick and choose when to buy oil

[Roger440]

5 minutes ago, G and J said:

You will do whatever makes you happy.  You don’t need anyone’s agreement from here or anywhere else. 
 

But I do look to government to set the parameters well so our beautiful country does continue, overall, to make progress towards a lesser footprint.  

 

Not doing it to make me "happy". Im doing it to ensure i stay warm. At a temp i decide, not Ed.

 

Edit to add, for clarity, give me electricity at a sensible price in line with much of the world, and convice me, by actions, not words, that you are serious about ensuring the supply remains that way, and ill switch to heat pumps for both house and barn tommorow.

 

The reality however, is lack of supply, planned "management" by the state of your heat pump, the right for the state to dictate which washing machine you can have, and ever increasing prices, suggest that i will be a victim" if i go all electric.

 

Edited Sunday at 13:59 by Roger440

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Circa 85% efficiency

Not really.

That is the maximum efficiency when everything is already up to temperature, the flow temperatures are idea, and the air temperature is high (ambient air temperature affect open combustion).

Be better to work on 70% efficiency to take into account cycling.

[Roger440]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Not really.

That is the maximum efficiency when everything is already up to temperature, the flow temperatures are idea, and the air temperature is high (ambient air temperature affect open combustion).

Be better to work on 70% efficiency to take into account cycling.

Thats a bit low. Ive done a fair bit of work. But, regardless, still cheaper. And with my new bigger tank, probably cheaper still.

 

But most importantly, i get to decide when i have heat. Thats priceless!

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

Thats priceless

Until it costs more, then it is Ed (I assume Milliband) telling you what to do.

[Roger440]

14 minutes ago, G and J said:

But how far does one take this?  A huge stash of bottled water, tinned food, iodine and an assault rifle á la many American NRA members?

 

In my more fanciful moments I wonder about planning for a backup battery for life support systems (lighting, MVHR, internet and coffee maker) but in reality in civilised parts of Blighty power cuts aren’t that common.  
 

On the other hand isolate me from coffee and it’s not pretty.   You can take my coffee cup from my cold, dead hand.   😉

 

As far as i need to to be confident that i can be warm regardless. OK, if the apocolypse comes, then all bets are off, as someone withh simply steal what i have, but outside of that, its just a case of insulating onesself from government stuipidity and incompetence and control.

[Roger440]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Until it costs more, then it is Ed (I assume Milliband) telling you what to do.

 

If it costs more, which is of course possible, then as i say, priceless, as i get to choose when to be warm. 

 

If oil gets too expensive v elecricity (which id rate as "highly unlikely") then i can add a heat pump, but keep the oil. So i can still not be a victim, because when Ed turns off my heat pump, i can just turn on my oil boiler. Win win.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

if the apocolypse comes, then all bets are off

I think this is something us 'older ones' know more about as we lived though the Cold War.

The turning off of the gas line through Ukraine was one days news, and now chip wrappers.

Having grown up around oil refineries, the conversation at home was often the price of oil.  If it went down to $20/barrel, the refineries reduced capacity. The refined products then kept their value.

A few years back, think it was 2006, we had a spike to $160/barrel, and armchair predictions that the new normal would be $200/barrel.  It settled at around the $80/barrel and has been there for ages.

Don't confuse local prices with oil prices, one is international trading of a future delivery of a product that is still in the ground, the other is local policies.

People down here moan about the cost of petrol and say that the energy companies are ripping us off.  I am one of the few people that travel up country on a very regular basis and noticed that our prices are lower than most.  Also, it is often claimed it is because we are so far from an oil refinery.  Well most of the UK is far from an oil refinery, but out depot is in Plymouth.  Not far at all (between 0 miles and 80 miles).

 

I do wish that all energy was taxed on two criteria, the energy content and the CO_2e emissions.  Then there would be a much more level playing field.

[markocosic]

On 05/01/2025 at 12:26, Roger440 said:

Going solely electric for heating puts me at the mercy of Ed and chums. I will not be part of that experiment, nor a victim.

 

Convert a Prius to LPG.

 

Locate engine etc in the garage for waste heat capture from block.

 

Plate heater exchanger into an LTHW buffer vessel for high grade heat to house/hot water.

 

Electricity to keep the lights on/fridge on/internets happy. And run a heat pump if you need more heat than electricity.

 

Offset your LPG using bucket loads of PV with an island capable inverter and battery combo.

 

Gasify wood and blend that with the vapourised LPG for extra style points.

 

Interlink the Prius battery/PV inverter battery for extra style points.

 

How can we make this more complicated?

[Roger440]

10 hours ago, markocosic said:

 

Convert a Prius to LPG.

 

Locate engine etc in the garage for waste heat capture from block.

 

Plate heater exchanger into an LTHW buffer vessel for high grade heat to house/hot water.

 

Electricity to keep the lights on/fridge on/internets happy. And run a heat pump if you need more heat than electricity.

 

Offset your LPG using bucket loads of PV with an island capable inverter and battery combo.

 

Gasify wood and blend that with the vapourised LPG for extra style points.

 

Interlink the Prius battery/PV inverter battery for extra style points.

 

How can we make this more complicated?

 

No need. Oil boiler plus back up genny. Problem fixed.

[joe90]

11 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

No need. Oil boiler plus back up genny. Problem fixed.

Just need to run a diesel genny on old chip oil (and the boiler if it will). 🤷‍♂️the ultimate in re cycling.

[Roger440]

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Just need to run a diesel genny on old chip oil (and the boiler if it will). 🤷‍♂️the ultimate in re cycling.

 

Too hard. I have a 1200 litre red diesel tank on site. That should keep the genny running a while.

 

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Too hard.

Yes, I just googled it, HVO is 10% to 20% more expensive than heating oil currently and complicated hydrogen techniques are required so DIY is out of the question. Shame . Still red diesel In generators is allowed but just found this,

 

In addition, the rules on permitted uses changed in April 2022, and it’s no longer legal to use red diesel in cranes, bulldozers, or for powering mobile generators on construction sites.

 

so I presume non mobile generators for back up are allowed to use red diesel. 

[Roger440]

Just now, joe90 said:

Yes, I just googled it, HVO is 10% to 20% more expensive than heating oil currently and complicated hydrogen techniques are required so DIY is out of the question. Shame . Still red diesel In generators is allowed but just found this,

 

In addition, the rules on permitted uses changed in April 2022, and it’s no longer legal to use red diesel in cranes, bulldozers, or for powering mobile generators on construction sites.

 

so I presume non mobile generators for back up are allowed to use red diesel. 

 

I believe so, because such uses are commercial operations. Its the same for farmers now. You can use red diesel on your farm, but if you do some haulage work for someone else, you have to switch to white. My diesel tank is my tractor (and digger) food.

 

Thus defeating the whole idea of red diesel, but, hey, politicians, so par for the course. If you follow the letter of the regs, you are supposed to drain the tanks, change the filters and flush through the lines if you switch from red to white. All whilst glossing over that even if you do that, you will still get a postive result for red. And a fine to go with it.

[joe90]

So the ultimate in non grid connection is a diesel CHP running on converted cooking oil to generate electricity and  heat, and a classic diesel car (requiring no MOT or Road tax) running on the same converted cooking oi, oh and a chip shop 🤣

 

sorry back on topic 

Edited Tuesday at 22:35 by joe90

[markocosic]

40 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

No need. Oil boiler plus back up genny. Problem fixed.

 

But oh so easy and inefficient! 😉

[markocosic]

7 minutes ago, joe90 said:

So the ultimate in non grid connection is a diesel CHP running on converted cooking oil to generate electricity and  heat, and a classic diesel car (requiring no MOT or Road tax) running on the same converted cooking oil

 

Not buying it as the 'ultimate' option.

 

Spark ignition CHP running on methane from the cow shed / naerobic digestion plant plus syngas from wood gasification.

 

LPG as your easily stored "pilot light" fuel for starting it up.

 

PV for offsetting demand for fuel entirely.

 

Screw *buying* in diesel. Cheating; more reliant on others outside your borders; easier to pinch in bulk than slurry/wood/LPG?

[Roger440]

5 minutes ago, markocosic said:

 

But oh so easy and inefficient! 😉

 

And near enough (as can be achieved) government proof. And cheaper. Well so long as i dont run the genny outside of power cuts. Sadly seen a lot of use lately. I think 7 since november. Including one over 48 hours. 

 

And you wonder why i posted what i did?

[Jilly]

@SteamyTeahas put me off getting a wood burner, despite having free wood, as I have asthma, and I do feel better than when I lived in the old place.

 

What about biogas? I know of people who have constructed homemade bio digesters which run off compost and animal poop. I’m sure it’s not perfect, but has fewer downsides than wood burning. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:50 by Jilly