Balancing rads help.....

[marshian]

11 minutes ago, Dee said:

The second image are the style I have.

I'll look into those valves...thanks for a great peice of info and advice!

Not a problem - you shouldn’t need diverters for those rads (OK they are column rads by name but not in the modern sense)

 

Just for giggles this was the view into the bottom tube of the column rad in my bathroom  (first picture)

 

So poor manufacturing tolerances meant opportunity for water to go straight thro from flow in to return out rather than be forced up the columns 

[Dee]

Marshian.....so which of the 3 valves you mentioned would you use now?

[marshian]

4 hours ago, Dee said:

Marshian.....so which of the 3 valves you mentioned would you use now?

@Dee Use the @ before a users name to tag someone (they get a notification they’ve been mentioned) and you should get a drop down to pick from

 

If I was doing it again I would use the flow setting (auto balancing type) by either Drayton (I use Wiser TRV’s but they work also with conventional Drayton TRV’s)

good explanation here

 

 

or the Danfoss equivalent

 

Either may accept your existing TRV Heads with adaptors (not sure if they are compatible or not)

 

good explanation of the Danfoss valves here

 

 

Fundamentally they both do the same thing - allow you to set up specific flow rates to individual rads that are not affected by system pressure changes (like when TRV heads start intervening in the circuit)

Both types work with the lockshield valve wide open

[MrPotts]

I think you mean valves that are affected by system pressure changes.

[marshian]

4 hours ago, MrPotts said:

I think you mean valves that are affected by system pressure changes.

 

No I don't

[MrPotts]

Isn’t the idea of an auto balancing valve to be setup initially based on the required flow rate and when this changes, due to other TRV’s closing, it automatically adjusts to try and maintain the flow rate.

[Nickfromwales]

So……they’re not actually auto-balancing then as they each require full mechanical (human) commissioning? I’m failing to see the benefit, sorry, and think it is much easier (for a newbie in particular) to get to the best result with balancing via the existing lock shield valve.

The latter is also the obvious choice in an existing install where you have the TRV’s (regular, serviceable ones) and do not want to make any changes.

 

@Dee, best to save your pennies and do this in one hit in the summer, as suggested above. Then you can take your time.

[marshian]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

So……they’re not actually auto-balancing then as they each require full mechanical (human) commissioning? I’m failing to see the benefit, sorry, and think it is much easier (for a newbie in particular) to get to the best result with balancing via the existing lock shield valve.

 

Less effort than setting up a radiator circuit from scratch - Main difference is that each one can be set up with the correct flow rate before fitting

 

Setting up with a lock shield depends on how good (or how much valve authority) your lock shields are (or have)

 

 

Precis - Some lock shields are utter garbage very few are excellent - I looked at buying the IMI ones but the EB4 bodies with 6 settings was cheaper

[MrPotts]

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

So……they’re not actually auto-balancing then as they each require full mechanical (human) commissioning? I’m failing to see the benefit, sorry, and think it is much easier (for a newbie in particular) to get to the best result with balancing via the existing lock shield valve.

The latter is also the obvious choice in an existing install where you have the TRV’s (regular, serviceable ones) and do not want to make any changes.

 

@Dee, best to save your pennies and do this in one hit in the summer, as suggested above. Then you can take your time.

You use an app which tells you what setting to use based on the size and type of radiator.

[Dee]

I've calculated that it will cost £450 to change all valves and it's too costly in one hit. I'll persevere with manual balancing as too much could go wrong with my limited knowledge!

Those last two rads are about 20m from the boiler and the heat/ pressure/power just doesn't seem to be enough to get there....no oomph!

Someone suggested the expansion tank might be too small??

[marshian]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

I've calculated that it will cost £450 to change all valves and it's too costly in one hit. I'll persevere with manual balancing as too much could go wrong with my limited knowledge!

Those last two rads are about 20m from the boiler and the heat/ pressure/power just doesn't seem to be enough to get there....no oomph!

Someone suggested the expansion tank might be too small??

It only takes a few rads stealing a little too much flow to starve the furthest rads - benefits of those flow setting valves is that the flow is fixed at exactly what the rooms/rads need and no more.

 

how much do you value your time?

 

how much grief do you get for the rooms that aren’t getting warm 

 

Fully open circuit in my house and the pump is moving 0.5 m3/hr and that’s being shared out across 13 rads in a system with a total volume of 150 Litres (excluding HW)

[SteamyTea]

Would a second pump, closer to where the troublesome radiators are, solve the flow problem?

Pumps are cheap, and relatively easy to fit.

[Dee]

As tempting as it is to change the valves I think it's a step too far for me to attempt and as much as I woukd like yo try its likely to cost me more when I buggar something up!

I'll keep persevering with the current tedious method!

[SteamyTea]

In the days of old, when we all drove BL cars, balancing a set of SU carburettors was a challenge.

One way to do it was by listening down each inlet barrel and matching the pitch.

I am not sure of something similar can be done with water pipes, phones have useful sound analysis software on them these day.

[joe90]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

I'll keep persevering with the current tedious method!

Well done, it’s amazing how little a lockshield valve needs to be open on a rad near a boiler to heat up and steal from those furthest away. 

[marshian]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Well done, it’s amazing how little a lockshield valve needs to be open on a rad near a boiler to heat up and steal from those furthest away. 

 

And that is why even though I could balance my system pretty well on cheap DIY lockshields I made the choice to invest in flow control TRV bodies or high quality lockshield valves with very linear performance characteristics because every time a TRV intervened it upset the system balance so found myself constantly tweaking and never happy

 

The high quality lockshields were more money than the flow control TRV bodies

[joe90]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

As tempting as it is to change the valves I think it's a step too far for me to attempt and as much as I woukd like yo try its likely to cost me more when I buggar something up!

It’s the OP,s choice. We can only advise.