iSelfBuild Posted December 16 Share Posted December 16 Just embarking on a wee kitchen extension. Existing kitchen part of the house is 100mm cavity with no insulation. Is it ok to do full fill 97mm celotex/kingspan interlocking insulation - if so what type of wall ties are used for that? Or should I do 75mm and a 25mm gap and top up internally with insualted plasterboard? Internal skin will be thermalite. Externally will be clad in 35mm Cotswold stone veneer and pointed. Only 7m of walling or so - big extension will be SIPS which I'll be posting for advice soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted December 16 Share Posted December 16 Rigid boards in the walls are impossible to get right. Use mineral wool or EPS blown beads instead. Use normal dense blocks rather than thermalite. They add almost nothing to the insulation and crack far too easily. Widen the cavity and add more insulation rather than using an insulated plasterboard. Insulated plasterboard is terrible for airtightness and is expensive and wasteful. What's the reasoning for SIPs for the extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 16 Share Posted December 16 On 16/12/2024 at 13:06, Iceverge said: Rigid boards in the walls are impossible to get right. Use mineral wool or EPS blown beads instead. Use normal dense blocks rather than thermalite. They add almost nothing to the insulation and crack far too easily. Widen the cavity and add more insulation rather than using an insulated plasterboard. Insulated plasterboard is terrible for airtightness and is expensive and wasteful. What's the reasoning for SIPs for the extension? Expand +1. I used mineral wool in a 200mm cavity with normal blocks (I hate thermalites,).so much less faff and worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted December 16 Author Share Posted December 16 On 16/12/2024 at 13:06, Iceverge said: Rigid boards in the walls are impossible to get right. Use mineral wool or EPS blown beads instead. Use normal dense blocks rather than thermalite. They add almost nothing to the insulation and crack far too easily. Widen the cavity and add more insulation rather than using an insulated plasterboard. Insulated plasterboard is terrible for airtightness and is expensive and wasteful. What's the reasoning for SIPs for the extension? Expand Thanks, I'll be doing it myself so if I do the full fill I'd make sure I get the detailing right, I was going to use the interlocking ones as I know gaps are inevitable otherwise. Just trying to keep the overall thickness as slim as possible - It's only a tiny extension, original house is thick solid stone cottage so seems silly to go over the top. SIPS purely for speed - I've built DIY stick framed before and just CBA with the time it will take etc - getting the whole 100m2 extension up in a week and watertight is a massive appeal so I can plod on with the finishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted December 16 Share Posted December 16 You can use normal wall ties with the full fill insulation boards. You need to really take care to clean up the snots and keep the cavity clean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted December 16 Share Posted December 16 On 16/12/2024 at 13:12, iSelfBuild said: , I was going to use the interlocking ones as I know gaps are inevitable otherwise Expand Still impossible to get them tight enough to be wall to prevent thermal looping. Whilst you're at it mark the K value of the boards from 0.022W/m2K down to about 0.033 as the blowing agent will escape from all the cut non foil sealed edges in a few years to be replaced by air so you're basically back at mineral wool or EPS anyway. Full fill mineral wool batts will be far far cheaper and easier to work with and result in less heat loss despite the headline worse insulative value. Airtighess is mega important too. I would recommend wet plaster internally. I was going to suggest to suggest stick framing with a blown or flexible insulation for the extension. What's your plan for the SIPs? Are you going to clad them in brick? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 Definitely swap out the aircrete for dense blocks, look out for the ones labelled as thermal blocks but as an aggregate block. I used xtratherm (now unilin) CT-PIR at 125mm in my latest side extension, which is an interlocking board, and having done previous extensions with aircrete inner and full fill 0.032 wool, I can say that the latest build is by far the best in terms of insulation and energy use. if I remember right the Kingspan full full boards need their joints taping on the cold side. normal wall ties are absolutely fine, and another +1 for wet plaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 On 16/12/2024 at 20:49, Iceverge said: Whilst you're at it mark the K value of the boards from 0.022W/m2K down to about 0.033 as the blowing agent will escape from all the cut non foil sealed edges in a few years to be replaced by air so you're basically back at mineral wool or EPS anyway. Expand im not sure I agree with you on that completely, yes the cut edges where the cells are open will leak the blowing agent, but the rest of the board should stay as manufactured unless punctured in some way. I’ve made fresh cuts in PIR which is more than 10 years old and can still smell the gas escaping from the fresh cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted December 17 Author Share Posted December 17 On 17/12/2024 at 09:07, MikeGrahamT21 said: Definitely swap out the aircrete for dense blocks, look out for the ones labelled as thermal blocks but as an aggregate block. I used xtratherm (now unilin) CT-PIR at 125mm in my latest side extension, which is an interlocking board, and having done previous extensions with aircrete inner and full fill 0.032 wool, I can say that the latest build is by far the best in terms of insulation and energy use. if I remember right the Kingspan full full boards need their joints taping on the cold side. normal wall ties are absolutely fine, and another +1 for wet plaster Expand Thanks! What size cavity did you have with the 125mm PIR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 On 17/12/2024 at 09:11, MikeGrahamT21 said: im not sure I agree with you on that completely, yes the cut edges where the cells are open will leak the blowing agent, but the rest of the board should stay as manufactured unless punctured in some way. I’ve made fresh cuts in PIR which is more than 10 years old and can still smell the gas escaping from the fresh cut Expand It'll keep getting out! Cavity boards suffer worse as they're smaller and have more exposed edges. Anyway this is far from the biggest issue. I've yet to see anyone installing any rigid boards to any satisfaction. It's just not practically possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookseehear Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 In practise how low should mineral wool go within the cavity - right down to the base or would you stand it off the bottom of the cavity somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookseehear Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 On 17/12/2024 at 09:07, MikeGrahamT21 said: Definitely swap out the aircrete for dense blocks, look out for the ones labelled as thermal blocks but as an aggregate block. Expand I was looking for something like this recently, but struggled to find anything I could get locally for a good price. I'm paying £1.25 + VAT for dense blocks and any thermal aggregate seem to end up closer to £3/block! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 On 17/12/2024 at 09:39, iSelfBuild said: Thanks! What size cavity did you have with the 125mm PIR? Expand It’s a full fill system with unventilated cavity so the board and its HIPS facer gives the 125mm, which is what the cavity has to be built as, I remember it was a snug fit as per the installation instructions. They have a really good fitting outer profile which keeps everything tight and sealed. https://unilininsulation.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/01/2913_CTPIR_UK_Final_V2.pdf On 17/12/2024 at 10:27, lookseehear said: I was looking for something like this recently, but struggled to find anything I could get locally for a good price. I'm paying £1.25 + VAT for dense blocks and any thermal aggregate seem to end up closer to £3/block! Expand have a look on huws gray, they always seemed to be cheapest for blocks for me at least, loads of options too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted December 17 Author Share Posted December 17 Thanks again Mike! 2nd recommendation for Huws Grey. Think I paid £1.06 this morning for two pallets. Used to buy truckloads at £0.60 can't believe price of things creeping up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookseehear Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 On 17/12/2024 at 17:09, MikeGrahamT21 said: have a look on huws gray, they always seemed to be cheapest for blocks for me at least, loads of options too Expand I've applied for a cash account, but the prices I'm seeing online don't go lower than £2.08 inc VAT for dense blocks and not many options either in Radstock or Bristol. Pretty frustrating - it isn't like we're in the middle of nowhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 On 17/12/2024 at 19:50, lookseehear said: I've applied for a cash account, but the prices I'm seeing online don't go lower than £2.08 inc VAT for dense blocks and not many options either in Radstock or Bristol. Pretty frustrating - it isn't like we're in the middle of nowhere! Expand Yeah just looked for Bristol, barely any choice and nothing thermal outside of aircrete. Any on eBay that will deliver to your location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookseehear Posted December 17 Share Posted December 17 Not that I can see. I think I'm just going to give up on trying to find medium density blocks for a sensible price that can deliver and go with the standard dense at £1.25 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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