Urgent help re. CIL please

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

Hi,

 

I'm currently part way through my self build (started Sept 24). The local authority emailed me today (9th Dec 24) notifying me that they are aware that works have commenced and that the 

CIL forms 2 and commencement notice have not been submitted. Therefore, if works have commenced, the full CIL charge plus additional surcharges have become due immediately plus additional surcharges for failure to submit the required forms. This is £124,000 plus £2500 surcharge!!!!

 

I can see in the email chain that my architect was reminded in Oct 23 and again June 24 to complete the form. He never sent these to me. I’m a first time self builder so am not experienced to know the process inside out. Had I of known and been contacted directly by the local authority, I would have filled out the forms. I competed a demolition notice as requested on the local authority portal and sent to BC before commencing in Sept 24, I assumed this was all that was needed. 
 

Someone please help! I don’t know what to do. 😔

 

 

[joe90]

Get on to your architect immediately asking why this was not forwarded to you and that the surcharge will be paid by them as it was their failure to deal with this matter and you have the proof. Also reply (or copy) to the council explaining the situation and that you are contacting the architect for a resolution and explanation.

Edited December 9 by joe90

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

Thanks for the reply Joe. My architect’s excuse was that he didn’t know when I was planning to start the works so didn’t proceed with the CIL 2 forms nor the commencement notice. When I asked about why the email was not forwarded to me, he didn’t know what to say. When I called the CIL dept at local authority earlier, they said that as it’s clearly stated in the planning application portal that forms must be completed prior to commencement, that there are no exemptions.

 

i fully understand that its specified online etc, but being a first time self builder with no experience in this area and so much to get my head around during the build process, it did not occur to me to revisit all the planning forms.

 

The surcharges will total £127,000, there is no way that my architect will cover the cost unless we go to court etc. Do I have any other options? We are literally talking about completing a couple forms and being 3 months into build.

Edited December 9 by Berkshire_selfbuid

[joe90]

Gosh I thought the surcharge was only the £2500 !!. What is your contract with the architect? As they are a professional and you are not I think that puts the Architect in a difficult position. I think you need legal advise on this because of the size of the monies being sought. A surcharge of £127k seems awfully punitive. 

[Russdl]

Good God. There must be some redress against the architect? Perhaps one of the architects on this forum can advise as I’ve no real idea what you can do about this frankly nonsense legislation. 

[SBMS]

15 minutes ago, Berkshire_selfbuid said:

Thanks for the reply Joe. My architect’s excuse was that he didn’t know when I was planning to start the works so didn’t proceed with the CIL 2 forms nor the commencement notice. When I called the CIL dept at local authority earlier, they said that as it’s clearly stated in the planning application portal that forms must be completed prior to commencement, that there are no exemptions.

 

i fully understand that its specified online etc, but being a first time self builder with no experience in this area and so much to get my head around during the build process, it did not occur to me to revisit all the planning forms.

 

The surcharges will total £127,000, there is no way that my architect will cover the cost unless we go to court etc. Do I have any other options? We are literally talking about completing a couple forms and being 3 months into build.

Firstly - how did they arrive at such an enormous figure? How big is your house and did they subtract existing floor space from your bungalow?

OK.. some harsh words coming but bear with..

 

I completely empathise with your situation. Unfortunately this is a little bit of an ‘ignorance is no defence’ - certainly I don’t think there’s any point in pursuing your architect. They’re not really responsible for this (indeed ours had zero involvement in this process. Even our planning consultant bowed out at the end and I dealt with CIL directly for my exemption).
 

it is an overly bureaucratic a process but councils are very very punitive with it. Self builders are an easy target because they don’t always know the exact sequencing.
 

I would say it’s almost certain your LA will not waive it - especially such a large amount. They are, unfortunately legally entitled to demand this of you and why would they not? I’ve posted elsewhere that our local council pursued a widow for 30k on CIL because her husband died and he hadn’t put her name on the CIL. They asserted that ‘he’ hadn’t lived in the build for 3 years (because he had died from cancer I might add) and were collecting against his estate as they were legally entitled to do. Talk about the letter of the law vs the spirit..

 

That being said, you do have the option of

pursuing this matter legally. With such a vast sum owed I would recommend you retain a solicitor specialising in planning law disputes (Ellis jones is one, there are others). You might have deeper pockets than the council (many are technically bankrupt) and they may not even want to risk their legal costs to defend an action from you. But with a large sum… they might. Speak to a number of planning dispute solicitors and get advice from all and see whether they think you have a case. Unfortunately I think that’s your only option. 

Edited December 9 by SBMS

[joe90]

6 minutes ago, SBMS said:

I don’t think there’s any point in pursuing your architect.

I think that depends on the contract he signed up to. (Drawings only vs overall oversight).hence I asked what his contract with you was.

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, Berkshire_selfbuid said:

I can see in the email chain that my architect was reminded in Oct 23 and again June 24 to complete the form. He never sent these to me.

Surely that’s enough to have a pop at the architect isn’t it?

[SBMS]

5 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I think that depends on the contract he signed up to. (Drawings only vs overall oversight).hence I asked what his contract with you was.

Fair point @joe90  if the contract called out all planning matters inclusive of CIL arrangement fair enough. If they did I’d definitely pursue them - their professional indemnity would pay out, result all round. Our RIBA stage/worded contract definitely didn’t. @Berkshire_selfbuid - what was your contract with your architect? Care to post it (anonymised)?

Edited December 9 by SBMS

[SBMS]

9 minutes ago, Russdl said:

Surely that’s enough to have a pop at the architect isn’t it?

The problem you’ve got is the CIL is due and the council will pursue matters against you. You’d be fighting on two fronts - one against the council and one against the architect… but a planning solicitor would help on both fronts and hopefully be able to look at whether the architect had any liability. Contact a solicitor tomorrow. 

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

Hi all. Thanks so much for the helpful replies. My contract with the architect was up to Building Regs I believe. He completed the CIL1 form and uploaded into the planning site. His argument is that as the contract was up until building regs only, that the local authority should have contacted me and not him. But surely that’s no excuse, if he has simply forwarded me the email, I would have easily filled it in. This is unbearably stressful at the moment.  

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

1 minute ago, SBMS said:

The problem you’ve got is the CIL is due and the council will pursue matters against you. You’d be fighting on two fronts - one against the council and one against the architect… but a planning solicitor would help on both fronts and hopefully be able to look at whether the architect had any liability. Contact a solicitor tomorrow. 

Yes ok thank you. I shall contact a solicitor tomorrow. 

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

We are going from 156sqm to 396sqm. My local authority charges £365 per sqm for the CIL. The rest of the fees accounted for in the £127k must be other fees etc. If I can’t get this resolved, it’s certainly an end to the project. We are currently at first lift and scaffolding went in today. I don’t know what I’ll do if I’m liable for this payment. Got a wife and 2 young kids waiting to complete this project and move in. 😢

[nod]

Reading all of the above I would say that you will be wasting your time per suing the Architect Both Architects on our builds forwarded the Cil forms and reminded us that it was our responsibility 

I guessing this has happened before 

 

Your best bet would be to try and at least get the ridiculous amount reduced 

At 124k your build must be a mansion 

[SBMS]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire_selfbuid said:

We are going from 156sqm to 396sqm. My local authority charges £365 per sqm for the CIL. The rest of the fees accounted for in the £127k must be other fees etc. If I can’t get this resolved, it’s certainly an end to the project. We are currently at first lift and scaffolding went in today. I don’t know what I’ll do if I’m liable for this payment. Got a wife and 2 young kids waiting to complete this project and move in. 😢

Who is your local authority?

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

1 minute ago, SBMS said:

Who is your local authority?

It’s Wokingham Borough Council (Berkshire). 

[SBMS]

8 minutes ago, nod said:

Reading all of the above I would say that you will be wasting your time per suing the Architect Both Architects on our builds forwarded the Cil forms and reminded us that it was our responsibility 

I guessing this has happened before 

 

Your best bet would be to try and at least get the ridiculous amount reduced 

At 124k your build must be a mansion 

It’s a bonkers price per sqm @nod - £365. Think you’re up north like me where we pay around £65. 

[Alan Ambrose]

Do these reduced penalties not apply:

 

https://www.warwickdc.gov.uk/info/20798/community_infrastructure_levy_cil/1207/cil_surcharges

 

Yes, I appreciate this is Warwick, but the text refers to the CIL Act.

 

Edited December 9 by Alan Ambrose

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

@Berkshire_selfbuid I have to agree with @SBMS I'm afraid (caveat: I'm no expert, and have only read up a lot on this having had my planning consultant put the fear of god into me at the start about CIL).

 

In my case, my planning consultant and architect both very clearly exempted themselves from anything to do with CIL from the outset. What I've read elsewhere does suggest that councils are really (unnecessarily) punitive in their pursuit of CIL from self-builders who have fell foul of the process by mistake, so as well as contacting a solicitor (which I think will be money well spent, even though you may feel you can't afford it atm), I would also contact your local councillor (and MP) and try and meet them (with a follow-up visit to site if they're happy). Although the council will be just 'following the process', the councillors exist to support their constituents and as a self-builder you're not a developer out to make a quick buck. Although technically carrying no legal weight, getting the councillor on side with your situation could be valuable, the new government's focus on addressing the national housing crisis is well timed for you to leverage it in support of your situation.

 

CIL isn't nationwide - not all councils implement a CIL, so it is in fact a choice - this combined with it being a policy (not statutory law applies nationwide) means that they could exercise the right to make an exemption.

 

Very best of luck.

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

5 minutes ago, Great_scot_selfbuild said:

I would also contact your local councillor (and MP) and try and meet them (with a follow-up visit to site if they're happy)

That’s a great idea thanks so much. I will get in contact with them tomorrow. Thank you! 

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> CIL isn't nationwide - not all councils implement a CIL, so it is in fact a choice

 

That's a good point - so how would a self-builder know unless the council had told you directly?

 

And a good point about the MP etc - it might just be legal, but it's pretty nasty, immoral and unjust for the LPA to try and exact this penalty. 'Community' indeed, legalised mugging more like.

 

Also, it's worth asking the architect to sort it out with the LPA as they both need to have an ongoing relationship. Amazing what can be done if the will is there - I once had Barclays and the HMRC agree to sort out a tax problem that Barclays had caused by being stupid.

 

Oh and the local paper of course. Councils don't like to be seen as money grabbing bullies.

Edited December 9 by Alan Ambrose

[SBMS]

2 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

how would a self-builder know unless the council had told you directly?

Unfortunately reading the above I think they did. They’re usually the first to respond on an application to let you know CIL is liable…

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

2 minutes ago, SBMS said:

Unfortunately reading the above I think they did. They’re usually the first to respond on an application to let you know CIL is liable…

Yes they did on the planning portal. And then they emailed my architect on 2 occasions, basically reminding them that their client needs to submit the forms. I never got those emails from the local authority or my architect. 

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> And then they emailed my architect on 2 occasions, basically reminding them that their client needs to submit the forms. I never got those emails from the local authority or my architect. 

 

That's right, the LPA should have emailed you directly and/or sent you a letter. It's not rocket surgery for the LPA to add the client themselves to the email list, is it? Because ... the architect's work might have concluded with the planning process and/or the architect might have forgotten to tell their client. If they want to hold you liable, then they should have told you. I think that's also (at least part of) a reasonable defence in law. And since email gets lost, accidentally deleted etc. then the LPA should have emailed and sent you a 'signed-for' or properly couriered letter.

Edited December 9 by Alan Ambrose

[Berkshire_selfbuid]

26 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

>>> And then they emailed my architect on 2 occasions, basically reminding them that their client needs to submit the forms. I never got those emails from the local authority or my architect. 

 

That's right, the LPA should have emailed you directly and/or sent you a letter. It's not rocket surgery for the LPA to add the client themselves to the email list, is it? Because ... the architect's work might have concluded with the planning process and/or the architect might have forgotten to tell their client. If they want to hold you liable, then they should have told you. I think that's also (at least part of) a reasonable defence in law. And since email gets lost, accidentally deleted etc. then the LPA should have emailed and sent you a 'signed-for' or properly couriered letter.

Yes agreed. The fact that they made the effort to hunt down my e-mail address to send me the email today regards the surcharges once they discovered that I’ve started the build is what’s making me super angry. They had the opportunity to send me a letter, hunt down my email address, and then would not be in this position.