Starting the build - what do I need to do wrt Utilities?

[Indy]

Not starting the build just yet - planned for early next year (Feb/March) but planning what I need to do wrt utilities.

 

Current plot is an existing bungalow with gas, electricity, water, virgin media coax.

 

Plan is to demolish and replace. What I've understood so far is that we need to get the utilities moved to a temporary box on the plot BEFORE we demolish. Trying to piece together the whole process so hopefully some more experienced members can help.

 

Electricity

Given that we're in the SE, our operator is UK Power Networks. I contacted them a month ago and their guy came to do a site survey today. The drawings on their system indicate that the supply cable runs horizontally across the plot and then under the next door neighbours' house. Guy said this wasn't the case most likely and used his handheld scanner to confirm that the cable comes out to the front driveway which makes the movement much easier. Cost would be £2k to do the initial movement of the cable from inside the bungalow to an outside temporary supply and then another £2k to come back and move it back in the main house when it's built. Me to do the groundworks (i.e. digging up trenches) but they would supply and lay the cables. 

 

Here come the questions:

1. Can we leave the supply in the TBS they plan to place on the plot permanently and avoid paying the £2k a second time?

2. Would my builder/electrician be allowed to pull the main supply from the TBS and into the house without paying UK PN for the privilege?

3. Is there anyway to bring the initial cost down? £2k seems like a lot to relocate a cable less than 10m on a suburban plot. Can I supply the parts and dig the trenches and get them to only do the bare minimum?

4. On the topic of 1ph vs 3ph - looks like the supply runs across the road from us which means that a 2 way traffic light system would be needed costing about £2k on top of the £5.5kish for the actual pulling of the 3ph cable. Is 3ph really necessary if we don't want the 22kW car chargers. House is a 5 bed, will have ASHP, Air Con, Solar PV, UFH, MVHR etc. 

5. Are we stuck with using UK Power Networks or are there any alternatives (cheaper) that we could use?

 

Gas

We have not yet decided on whether we move away from gas completely. Even if we go down the route of ASHP for heating/hot water, we may retain gas for the kitchen and a high efficiency gas fire (vs say a log burner). 

1. Is there a similar process to get the gas supply moved to a temporary box and then routed back into the house?

2. Would we need to have the temporary supply moved to inside the property afterwards or could it be left on the TBS being made permanent.

3. Who do I contact to start the conversation re gas connections? British Gas?

 

Water

I do not know yet where the water mains run but to have the drainage etc designed - seems like there is a cost of £100 ish to Thames Water for them to do the design work and come back to us with a price?

1. Are they the only ones equipped to do the work or do I have choices?

2. Is there an easy way online (even if not free) to find out water connections, drains, sewer lines etc using a map?

 

Internet

The idea is to have the connection coming to the house either via the TBS or utility (both located on the same side of the plot luckily).

1. What do I need to build to future proof either Virgin or Openreach coming into the property supply?

2. No Openreach yet (Dec 26) but Virgin Media supply exists. Do I need to contact them to arrange for the movement of the cable or can I move the coax myself (i.e. builder) to this TBS box?

 

[Conor]

1. The estimate of £2k is high. You'll find it'll come out less. The same works for us came in at a total of £2.k for the initial disconnection, relocation to kiosk, and final connection to house. You'll do the digging and ducting, the network's contractors will just do the cable side. You don't need 3ph, unless you plan on running simultaneous car chargers or having a very large PV array. 

 

2. Ditch the gas entirely. You won't need a gas fire, and an induction hob is superior to a gas. Also means your ventilation works are simpler and your house is more airtight. Other than that, the existing supply would need to be found and isolated, then a new one fitted. Spend the saved £££ on more insulation.

 

3. Don't bother speaking to the water company. You own the pipe after the stopcock / meter box. Won't be hard to find. Before you demolish, find it, isolate the supply and just fit a tap on a post at your boundary and remove the old pipe. Then for the new house, you simply lay your new pipe and connect in to the old pipe at the boundary. Your ground works people will be able to do this. Ditto for the sewer connection.

 

If your supply pipe turns out to be lead, apply for a new connection once you have completed all your works, it will be free. They'll then for a new connection from the main to your private pipe to edge of your property.

 

4. Internet. Nothing to do really until you are fully finished. Just lay a duct with draw rope to where the supplies will come in from. Virgin are useless, you need to tell them what to do. Don't worry about the existing supply, we ripped ours out with the digger as the concept of disconnecting a service did not seem to exist in their call handlers dictionary. Open reach will likely want an overhead service anyway. I carefully disconnected our phone cable and coiled the cable up. It was dead anyway.

[LnP]

I agree with everything @Conor said but would add ...

We're doing the same kind of project (demolish and rebuild) and will live on site during the build in an outbuilding which we've fixed up. The outhouse is heated by a gas boiler and we need all the utilities to keep going during the build. I decided to move the gas and electricity meters into new free-standing permanent boxes on one side of the plot. I decided to upgrade the electrical supply to 3 ph after playing around with this demand calculator. 

Our water meter was in the old house which was built in the '60s. I asked UU to relocate the meter to a box in the street by the stop valve which was straightforward. Don't recall the cost but it wasn't much.

 

I was wondering what to do about the phone/fibre connection which is still in the old house where we're still living. Haven't sorted that yet. So apart from that, I'm now ready to isolate and demolish the old house and keep all the utilities going to the outhouse. 

 

[Russdl]

Agree with all the above, especially the advice re ditching the gas, an induction hob is superior in every conceivable way. 
 

Work on the insulation and air tightness. 

 

If you can get the 3 phase for a few grand more I think it would be well worth the expense to future proof your house. Who knows how many EV’s you’ll be charging overnight in 10 years time, or how big your household battery is that needs charging overnight etc etc. 

 

 

[Gus Potter]

5 hours ago, Indy said:

I do not know yet where the water mains run but to have the drainage etc designed

Pay particular attention to this, also the drainage flows and loads (surface water.. hard standings matter) if you are increasing occupancy. This can open a can of worms so beware.

 

4 hours ago, Conor said:

3. Don't bother speaking to the water company.

Probably does not apply to you but if a new build then you need to watch out for land contamination on the site as this can have an impact on the type and cot of water pipe you need. If in doubt ask now rather than get caught out later.

[Indy]

6 hours ago, Conor said:

1. The estimate of £2k is high. You'll find it'll come out less. The same works for us came in at a total of £2.k for the initial disconnection, relocation to kiosk, and final connection to house. You'll do the digging and ducting, the network's contractors will just do the cable side. You don't need 3ph, unless you plan on running simultaneous car chargers or having a very large PV array. 

Thanks - waiting to receive the quote via email and hopefully it will come in lower than the rough £2k he mentioned while on site. One more question - do I provide the cable or is that provided by the utilities company?

 

As for 3ph, yeah - that's what he said. None of the other houses in the area were 3ph. I guess if the difference is £4k vs £5.5k - then it might be something I do to future proof. But if its £4k vs £8k - harder to justify. He did say that you can get a second feed to the property so a 3ph is not the only solution. 

 

  

6 hours ago, Conor said:

2. Ditch the gas entirely. You won't need a gas fire, and an induction hob is superior to a gas. Also means your ventilation works are simpler and your house is more airtight. Other than that, the existing supply would need to be found and isolated, then a new one fitted. Spend the saved £££ on more insulation.

Noted, especially the point re airtightness. So all we need to do in this scenario is to safely cap the existing connection and have it moved to a common spot so we can locate it in the future.  

 

6 hours ago, Conor said:

3. Don't bother speaking to the water company. You own the pipe after the stopcock / meter box. Won't be hard to find. Before you demolish, find it, isolate the supply and just fit a tap on a post at your boundary and remove the old pipe. Then for the new house, you simply lay your new pipe and connect in to the old pipe at the boundary. Your ground works people will be able to do this. Ditto for the sewer connection.

The water meter is located on the driveway to the front of the property, next to the line with the neighbours. Though it is on the opposite side of the plot where we'd want the TBS. Is it common practice to have all 3 utilities next to each other or would it be ok to leave it where it is?

 

 

6 hours ago, Conor said:

4. Internet. Nothing to do really until you are fully finished. Just lay a duct with draw rope to where the supplies will come in from. Virgin are useless, you need to tell them what to do. Don't worry about the existing supply, we ripped ours out with the digger as the concept of disconnecting a service did not seem to exist in their call handlers dictionary. Open reach will likely want an overhead service anyway. I carefully disconnected our phone cable and coiled the cable up. It was dead anyway.

Noted on the duct but I'd want to retain the working Virgin service, at least until Openreach cable up the area. Would I be ok to move the existing Virgin cable or extend by adding a coax coupler (?) and extending the length of the cable to end up where we want it to?

 

And thank you, very informative and useful

 

[Indy]

1 hour ago, Gus Potter said:

Pay particular attention to this, also the drainage flows and loads (surface water.. hard standings matter) if you are increasing occupancy. This can open a can of worms so beware.

 

Probably does not apply to you but if a new build then you need to watch out for land contamination on the site as this can have an impact on the type and cot of water pipe you need. If in doubt ask now rather than get caught out later.

 

What can I do at this stage for the drainage planning and finding out where the sewers are? I assume the builder will do the relevant checks before starting to dig up the foundations but if I can help with some planning earlier, I might as well. 

[LnP]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

 

What can I do at this stage for the drainage planning and finding out where the sewers are?

Check the drawings held by the utility and get a drains survey done in case there are drains which are not on the drawings?

[Indy]

11 hours ago, LnP said:

Check the drawings held by the utility and get a drains survey done in case there are drains which are not on the drawings?

Apologies if this is an obvious question - but would this show up on a drainage search from when we bought the property?

 

Or a separate call to Thames Water to find out the location of drains on our plot?

 

This is what I have though this doesn't show any details for lines running under the plot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Indy

[LnP]

Yes, I think this is probably the extent of the information which Thames Water have. It was the same for me so I got a CCTV drain survey done to find out exactly what I had on my plot. It was only £250 + VAT and they provided a written report with a map showing where the drains are and the CCTV files. It's been invaluable information. Good value, maybe because they expect to get remedial work from what they find - their assessment of what they found was quite pessimistic.

[Indy]

On 22/10/2024 at 16:49, Conor said:

1. The estimate of £2k is high. You'll find it'll come out less. The same works for us came in at a total of £2.k for the initial disconnection, relocation to kiosk, and final connection to house. You'll do the digging and ducting, the network's contractors will just do the cable side. You don't need 3ph, unless you plan on running simultaneous car chargers or having a very large PV array. 

 

 

 

So you were right on this point - the quote came through yesterday and it's £1530 + VAT. The quote did come through with the VAT added to make it £1800ish though a follow up phone call from them sorted that out. This is only for the original movement to the outside kiosk, and the movement back inside the house would be a different task and quoted for separately.

 

I did ask if there's a way to reduce the cost if we do all the work (which we are already in terms of digging the trenches etc) and the lady said we could use an Independent Connection Provider. Have others used this and does it work out cheaper?

 

One comment to add - fairly impressed with the speed and customer service from UKPN. Both the surveyor and the person sending the quotes through have been nothing but helpful and quick to turn things around. 

[Bancroft]

On 24/10/2024 at 13:49, Indy said:

I did ask if there's a way to reduce the cost if we do all the work (which we are already in terms of digging the trenches etc) and the lady said we could use an Independent Connection Provider. Have others used this and does it work out cheaper?

We're still sorting our electrical out with SSEN (they're re-doing the third quote at the moment having screwed the first two up...)

 

Looking at SSEN's paperwork we too can use an Independent Connection provider.  HOWEVER, the elements of the job the ICP can do are very limited, and it still looks like SSEN require the ICP to: submit a full design to them (for their approval) and enter into an Adoption Agreement (written by SSEN).

 

That has delay (and frustration) written all over it from my point of view so if you're in any sort of hurry it may be easier simply to go with what your electricity company say.

 

Annoying but that's reality with these monopolies.