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Concrete screws for cladding batons ?


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I like these screws from Swiftfix. These are the same screws @Chanmenie used. 

https://www.swiftfix.co.uk/7-4-x-180mm-TX40-Blue-Power-Timber-to-Masonry-Screws-Box-of-100-p141442218

 

https://www.swiftfix.co.uk/7-4-x-200mm-TX40-Blue-Power-Timber-to-Masonry-Screws-Box-of-100-p141878417

 

Strong, have good corrosion resistant coating. I think these are the ones I used to fit the battens for my cladding, but would have to check. 
 

I alternated my fixings between the web and the concrete. Also did a few holes with the spiral fasteners. Rawlplug 80mm SPIRAL FIXING FOR EPS. 

 

https://shop.rawlplug.co.uk/facade-insulation-fixings/facade-insulation-accessories/iso-plug-plastic-screw-in-fixings/r-iso-plug-insulation-fixings/spiral-fixing-for-eps-80mm-box-of-40-r--iso--plug--80

 

So for example a 2 metre batten, with 400mm spacing would have 3 concrete screws, 3 in the web, or 3 spiral if not on a web point. Batten spacing would be 400mm, but for where boards joined, I would double batten. 


 

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Edited by Nick Laslett
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On 03/10/2024 at 20:10, Firsttimer said:

We are using Izodom - 100mm EPS on the exterior, 25mm vertical batons, 25mm horizontal batons and 20mm cladding.

There will be a way of fixing this.. 9 times out of 10 at least.

 

What cladding do you want to fix? Is it timber or a cement based material or something else? It all starts with the weight of the cladding. Next is where are you in the country and what is the site altitude as we need to consider if there is any onerous wind loading that could peel the cladding away at the corners of the building say. I may sound a bit.. odd.. but all this info is essential to maintaining your cladding warranty and making the building perform say for 50 years.

 

To design the fixings I would start with the cladding weight and the wind load. From this I calculate the tension and bending force in the fixing. I then find a fixing that will do what I want it to do. Now from time to time depending on the timber strapping arrangement and how the cladding is mounted I may use heavier fixings at larger spacings to carry the weight of the cladding and other ones that take less work to install elsewhere and these are just designed to resist the wind loads.

 

I would fix into the concrete and not the web. The web is plastic and not suitable technically for this application. Aim for the large concrete area which is easy to hit. You need more fixings around say openings.. aiming for the web is not practicable. Also fixing into plastic has implications in terms of fire protection as the fixings heat up.

 

Post a sketch and some extra info if you can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

!

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WE

On 05/10/2024 at 21:24, Gus Potter said:

There will be a way of fixing this.. 9 times out of 10 at least.

 

What cladding do you want to fix? Is it timber or a cement based material or something else? It all starts with the weight of the cladding. Next is where are you in the country and what is the site altitude as we need to consider if there is any onerous wind loading that could peel the cladding away at the corners of the building say. I may sound a bit.. odd.. but all this info is essential to maintaining your cladding warranty and making the building perform say for 50 years.

 

To design the fixings I would start with the cladding weight and the wind load. From this I calculate the tension and bending force in the fixing. I then find a fixing that will do what I want it to do. Now from time to time depending on the timber strapping arrangement and how the cladding is mounted I may use heavier fixings at larger spacings to carry the weight of the cladding and other ones that take less work to install elsewhere and these are just designed to resist the wind loads.

 

I would fix into the concrete and not the web. The web is plastic and not suitable technically for this application. Aim for the large concrete area which is easy to hit. You need more fixings around say openings.. aiming for the web is not practicable. Also fixing into plastic has implications in terms of fire protection as the fixings heat up.

 

Post a sketch and some extra info if you can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

!

We will be using Larch and going vertically. I believe the elevation of the site is about 165m. It's quite sheltered. 

 

Not got the time to do a sketch at the moment.

 

 

 

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On 04/10/2024 at 06:49, Conor said:

What a nightmare. I've looked at that systems photos and see what you mean. 

 

How are going to plasterboard the inside if you can't find webs easily?

You can see the webs from the interior.

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On 04/10/2024 at 06:49, Conor said:

 

 

How are going to plasterboard the inside if you can't find webs easily?

You can dot and dab onto EPS 

Plasterboard adhesive and Soudal Plasterboard adhesive foam both worked well on my EPS build

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  • 3 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Firsttimer said:

@Nick Laslett @Chanmenie Hi both. What size batons did you use please ? The spec says a minimum of 30 * 50 mm , but I've already bought 25 *50 mm...


I used a mix of 25x50mm and 25x30mm coloured roof battens. I followed the TDCA guidelines, but I was fitting thermowood timber. I actually bought the full book in the end, but I think the free one covers nearly everything. 
 

https://www.tdca.org.uk/publications/the-timber-cladding-handbook/

Edited by Nick Laslett
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21 minutes ago, Nick Laslett said:


I used a mix of 25x50mm and 25x30mm coloured roof battens. I followed the TDCA guidelines, but I was fitting thermowood timber. I actually bought the full book in the end, but I think the free one covers nearly everything. 
 

https://www.tdca.org.uk/publications/the-timber-cladding-handbook/

Thanks Nick. That's a great reference. Good to hear that you used 25mm deep, presumably without any issue. 

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On 03/10/2024 at 21:36, Gus Potter said:

So would I after say 3 months once the insulation has compressed / suffered from creep.. then you lose the friction that intialally makes it seem solid. Also if using timber battens the timber shrinks and that too further reduces the friction resistance.

 

After that you are relying on the bending capacity of the fixing alone..

Can you 'torque to yield' to overcome this problem.

Not sure if the yield needs to be the bolt (which is what is really being talked about here) or the insulation material that is taking the friction load.

Maybe some adhesive can come in handy.

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