Self Closers on Fire Doors

[revelation]

What are the regulations regarding self-closers (perkos) on fire doors?

 

We have had a loft conversation, so we are installing fire doors everywhere.  The issue we have is that the building inspector has said we do not need self-closers on the doors, my joiner says he always put them in.  I have asked for the information from the BCO in writing but after asking several times still haven't received it.   We have 30FD and all doors will have the intumescent strips. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

[garrymartin]

The BCO is correct. Building Regulations Approved Document B, specifically Appendix C.

 

[joe90]

Having done a few loft conversions over the years I have found a lack of consistency with BCO,s on this subject. 

[kandgmitchell]

It used to be the case that when having a loft conversion all the doors opening onto the escape stair had to be fitted with self closers. That was dropped a while ago because quite honestly owners used to remove them. Perko's were quite capable of trapping kids fingers as they tended to snap doors shut quite hard. When I was a BCO (many years ago mind you), when asked about self closers in that situation I suggested they look at the gibralter arm type as they were easier to adjust.

 

It was probably the open secret that owners took the closers off which was one reason why they were dropped and the situation is now as per garrymartins post.

[revelation]

8 hours ago, joe90 said:

Having done a few loft conversions over the years I have found a lack of consistency with BCO,s on this subject. 

I wanted to be sure as my builder had done lots over the years and thinks I should have them.  But would save time and money if they are not necessary as far as building control are concerned. 

[revelation]

8 hours ago, kandgmitchell said:

It used to be the case that when having a loft conversion all the doors opening onto the escape stair had to be fitted with self closers. That was dropped a while ago because quite honestly owners used to remove them. Perko's were quite capable of trapping kids fingers as they tended to snap doors shut quite hard. When I was a BCO (many years ago mind you), when asked about self closers in that situation I suggested they look at the gibralter arm type as they were easier to adjust.

 

It was probably the open secret that owners took the closers off which was one reason why they were dropped and the situation is now as per garrymartins post.

do you have an idea when the self closer rule was scrapped? 

[revelation]

11 hours ago, garrymartin said:

The BCO is correct. Building Regulations Approved Document B, specifically Appendix C.

 

I appreciate that. Makes life much easier not having them. 

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, revelation said:

I wanted to be sure as my builder had done lots over the years and thinks I should have them.  But would save time and money if they are not necessary as far as building control are concerned. 

Your BCO will tell you if you have to have them, your own health and safety decision will tell you to instal them if not required by building regs ) just make sure you have good smoke alarms on every floor anyway.

[Temp]

ChatGPT is quite useful sometimes...

 

Quote

 

Me: The English Building Regulations do not require fire doors in houses to be self closing. When was the requirement for self closing removed from the regulations?

 

ChatGPT: The requirement for self-closing devices on fire doors in houses was removed from the English Building Regulations in 2010. This change was part of a broader revision of the fire safety regulations for residential properties to streamline and update the standards.

 

 

How old is your joiner, perhaps he never noticed the change.

 

[kandgmitchell]

13 hours ago, Temp said:

How old is your joiner, perhaps he never noticed the change.

Part of the problem when requirements drop out of the regulations, they don't get as much attention as when new requirements arrive. Unless specifically asked, a BCO isn't likely to point out that something isn't needed anymore, they'll just ignore it.  Guys on site having got used to doing things in a particular way, usually plod on until told otherwise. 

[Pocster]

I was surprised on a domestic that fire doors don’t need closers . Seems counterintuitive too me . Open fire door isn’t much good in a fire . So my fire door has no closers as confirmed by door manufacturer and bco documents ( no good actually asking bco )

[Temp]

I think it was to encourage the fitting of fire doors. Nobody was fitting them because of the need for closers?

[Mike]

23 hours ago, revelation said:

do you have an idea when the self closer rule was scrapped? 

2003:

 

 

[kandgmitchell]

The 2000 (ammended in 2002) Approved Document for Part B - Fire Safety had a specific requirement for self closers to all doors opening onto the escape stairway. The next full revision issued in 2006 had that requirement removed, restricting self closers to attached/intergral garages only.