MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 I've just read on here: https://www.emergencyplumber.uk.com/plumbing/best-radiators/ that radiators should be a minimum of 150mm above floor level, for convection to be at its best, just checked what ours are currently and they are around 90mm, what do you think about this recommendation, worth taking note or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: Another thing I thought of last night, how on earth do you ensure the elbow is pointing the right way, or would it naturally fall that way?? Rubber washers inside the joint? I was thinking the same thing last night tbh. Firstly, the list sounds ok, but only you will know the actual qty and components list in fairness. The elbow issue is one of plumbing skill . The PTFE tape needs to be wound on as tight as you can without snapping it, and you need to get a good 20 turns on. Then squeeze it in your hand between the thumb and knuckle of your index finger, like a strangle hold, and twist the fitting ( clockwise only so the tape doesn't turn back off ) so it's compacted into the valleys of the thread. Then, get some liquid PTFE ( iirc @JSHarris got his from Screwfix ) and coat both the PTFE tape on the male valleys of the valve, and the bare valleys of the female thread of the elbow. Then carefully start turning one into the other. An old cloth between the spanners / grips and the valve will stop you scratching them back to the brass. Then the tricky bit. You need to work out when you have less than one full revolution left in the elbow before it bottoms out on the valve. When you approach that point you need to work out where the elbow needs to be pointing and then stop when you get there. Back turning isn't great so avoid it if possible. When made up, these ideally need 24hrs for the liquid stuff to take hold before pressurising. Stelrad are a nice looking radiator, but if there's one ( that's not the Kudox made PO? from B&Q / Screwfix ) that got higher output then go for it. Avoid Moretti for the vertical radiator as they're worse than bad. 90mm off the floor shouldn't really be a problem, as long as furniture isn't up tight against it. It's just about air resistance, eg what comes out of the top of the convector fins needs to be able to get into the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) OK, the only rad which will be affected by the 90mm will be the living room one, and it has nothing in front of it. Bedroom one has plenty of space above it, so I'll raise it 50mm when i put the new one in to go to 150mm. Found these for the verticals, with high heat output: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vertical-Designer-Radiator-Oval-Column-Tall-Upright-Central-Heating-Radiators-UK/201641074281?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=500899344119&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 No mention of brand really though. The elbows certainly sound challenging, I guess a stem elbow is still the best option if I can find a 16x2 version, which I haven't so far. I have had a look at stelrads installation instructions, and it seems you can locate the flow TRV at the top of the rad, making the TRV in a better position for sensing temperature (being off the floor), what do you think about that, or shall i just stick to the norm of both at the bottom? I just need to know before I order any smart TRV's, as they come in horizontal and vertical types EDIT: Just found these: http://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/12-16-20mm-size-fittings/stem-elbow-3/ Seem to come in 16mm push fit, would that work with MLCP? Cancel the edit, you can't buy them in the UK Edited January 5, 2018 by MikeGrahamT21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 Think i'll buy a cheap 15mm female elbow, i've got a spare TRV in the garage, and I'll have a mess with it to see where it lands. Obviously I can't test for leaks, but it should give me an idea if it will fall where i want it to, though i'm guessing via sods law, it won't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) Forget the female elbows, I'm going to use the push fit stem elbows, a small section of copper, then a 15-16 converter hidden behind the rad, job done! Edited January 5, 2018 by MikeGrahamT21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Sounds a good way out of it, just the white pushfit elbow isn't the prettiest thing I've ever seen. The stem is made from very robust plastic though, but I'm still not a fan of compression onto plastic. At least when done it'll all be fixed so shouldn't have any issue, but I think I'd put a few turns of PTFE over the olive to give a bit of additional give. Fyi, you can cut the stems shorter if that helps . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 14/01/2018 at 15:49, Nickfromwales said: Sounds a good way out of it, just the white pushfit elbow isn't the prettiest thing I've ever seen. The stem is made from very robust plastic though, but I'm still not a fan of compression onto plastic. At least when done it'll all be fixed so shouldn't have any issue, but I think I'd put a few turns of PTFE over the olive to give a bit of additional give. Fyi, you can cut the stems shorter if that helps . The ones I've chosen are solid brass stems with chrome coating on them, and a pushfit connector, a little more expensive but should look nicer overall, then I'll put some chrome pipe cover on the little section of copper which will be showing, or paint it with some kind of chrome paint, I'll make sure it looks good either way :-) Infact, I've even found a white one: https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/hep2o-spigot-elbows/ but they are plastic, i'd rather the brass one for the compression as you say 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Chrome over brass is the way forward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Yeah I agree mate! I'd rather pay the extra for solid brass. Well, I think my plan is set. Just need my wife to get better now, so I can knock through into the extension and then start all of this work, so it may not happen this year, but hopefully it will, as that means shes better! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Good luck and keep us updated. Pass our well wishes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 I will indeed, thanks for your input as always. Will do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Just thought i'd give a quick update to this post, since I connected this all up yesterday, despite still not having all the radiators in situ! My wifes health is still not great, so i've just been doing stuff where I can, she is at home now and due to the early autumn weather we seem to be getting, she promptly requested the heating to be able to work. So after months of work which involved cutting out all of the existing woodwormed timber, underpinning a 60mm masonry wall, cleaning out under the floor of crap (6 rubble sacks full from the hallway and little room!), installing the manifold and all new pipework, knocking through and laying the insulation and new timber floor, here is where we have arrived: And yes that is a straight joint on the wood floor above, by the time i noticed it (was running on empty), the glue had already dried, its sat on a joist anyway, and seems absolutely fine. For the benefit of others, I've also picked up a few tips doing all this, from jobs which i'd done previously and thought were done. Turns out friction fit of PIR insulation even when done really well, isn't that good, in the rooms which I have already insulated I found many examples of insulation which had dropped through and was no longer doing its job, clearly i couldn't sort that out as part of this work, and will have to lift the floors to fix at a later date, but from now on I've been using some little L shaped brackets which protrude the bottom of the joists, to hold the insulation in place. I've also found that rather than using 1 layer of 100mm, which will obviously have joins in it, was to use 50mm (this was by total accident, supplier had ran out of 100mm phenolic, so ended up with 50mm), and to put the larger pieces with less joins in at the bottom, and then use up all of the offcuts on the top, along with a good helping of expanding foam to hold everything in place. I can now stop rushing quite as much, fearing the cold weather coming, and complete the rest in a reasonable pace. I've pretty much just got to plaster the new room now, and then put the final finish flooring down, we've decided on bamboo for this, looks really nice, extremely hard, and also sustainable which is quite important to me. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Looks great. Keep going, and please keep updating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 What pipe did you use? Would it be better to use that 16mm ufh stuff for this scenario. Because of the metal barrier it bends and holds shape really well. No need for elbows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 Exactly so, yes I used MLCP 16mm pipe, and it worked brilliantly. So the only joints in the system are the manifold, the radiator valves, and the 22mm copper to plastic connection to adhere to the boiler guidelines of using plastic pipe (first bit has to be copper). Really impressed with the 16mm pipe, would definitely use it again, as you say its so easy to shape, and with a pipe bending spring, you can get almost any angle you want, and it stays put. Funnily enough the few odd leaks I had were on the traditional 15mm connections, all of the 16mm eurocone connections were spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 @MikeGrahamT21, just glanced over this and spotted the bottle vent on the manifold laying flat. As you'll have the rads as the high points for bleeding air out I'd cap that off. They cant stay in the horizontal position or they wont work and will leak like a bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 On 02/10/2018 at 17:33, Nickfromwales said: @MikeGrahamT21, just glanced over this and spotted the bottle vent on the manifold laying flat. As you'll have the rads as the high points for bleeding air out I'd cap that off. They cant stay in the horizontal position or they wont work and will leak like a bugger. Yeah i've bought some caps for the end if it becomes an issue, i had thought that myself, but it seems fine at present, it is angled upwards, so isn't totally flat. Cheers for the heads up. Will get some more photos of progress up soon, taken delivery of our engineered wood flooring today, hoping to start laying that this weekend ? Oh and we've had building control sign off too which is always nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 53 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: Yeah i've bought some caps for the end if it becomes an issue, i had thought that myself, but it seems fine at present, it is angled upwards, so isn't totally flat. Cheers for the heads up. Will get some more photos of progress up soon, taken delivery of our engineered wood flooring today, hoping to start laying that this weekend ? Oh and we've had building control sign off too which is always nice. It maybe ok for now but unless 100% vertical it will fail I assure you Chop it out now as the air will vent into the rads anyhoo. ? Be good to see some pics ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 Ok will do, Im liking the ability to zone off everything, individual rads and even the manifold as an entity, I’ll make sure it fits first though, 28mm sounds right doesn’t it? That was what I bought, only size they had after 22mm and it sounded reasonable. yeah need to take some up to date photos, will try and get some, just absolutely flat out with trying to get stuff done, amazing how much time it takes to decorate properly. Plastering went well well for a first time, yeah it’s not perfect, but even for me a perfectionist I’m really pleased with it and all for £25 and a good amount of effort! Needed the exercise anyway lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Updated photos as promised. The light fittings are lower than their final position, i've had to put the step ladders underneath them as I keep banging my head! lol Grey one is going to get put on a hook to move it nearer the radiator wall, and the other just needs shortening, i made it longer so that my wife couldn't say can you make it a bit longer, covering all bases and all. Big pile of wood flooring will hopefully be down very soon! Edited October 12, 2018 by MikeGrahamT21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 Well, we finally made it, 3 years from when i first started! Just got some blinds to go up at the windows which haven't come yet, but otherwise done and dusted. Just wanted to say thank you for all your help, both from this forum and ebuild (thats how long its taken me lol!) The room itself is performing as expected, with an average temperature of 21C and humidity of between 40 and 50% (with hardly any ventilation at present, just the vents in the roof windows). The radiators I put in were massively over-specced, but at the time it was hard to imagine the room being easy to warm, indeed the calcs were correct and they rarely come on, even on the coldest of days, though it hasn't had its true test yet, but overall really pleased with this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyTable Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) Nick Im stuck for space mounting the CH manifold. If the rads are downstairs and the manifold on the first floor(higher than the rads) by fixed horizontally like Grahams, is it possible to simply rotate the bleed into the vertical position? Im using Hep20 15mm barrier 'lay flat'. Edited February 10, 2022 by DonkeyTable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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